HayesGreener
SAINT
Man accused of exchanging gunfire with officers held on $3.3 million bond
An officer was grazed in the leg by a bullet and was transported to a local hospital. They have since been released.
I would say more range time is indicated for the PD
- Thread starter HayesGreener
- Start date
KillerFord1977
Emissary
Yep.
Some refresher training if “multiple” officers fired and no one landed a shot
Some refresher training if “multiple” officers fired and no one landed a shot
While we don’t know all the specifics I can probably safely say this just reflects what I observed as a LE trainer (that goes to private sector tfainjng lkke Rangemaster John Hearne etc)
Of that whole 10% 80% 10% breakdown and flat range qualification stuff in huge B27 like targets
Of that whole 10% 80% 10% breakdown and flat range qualification stuff in huge B27 like targets
HayesGreener
SAINT
I hate second guessing decisions on the street, but I have to wonder if long guns were available or employed by officers.
Training is an expensive proposition in terms of manpower and deployment, ammo, and facilities. Many agencies are struggling to meet stsffing demands and just can't afford the costs. Many agencies just don't put enough emphasis on firearms training, opting for minimum qualification standards as "good enough". The agencies that prioritize firearms training become apparent when the shooting starts onbthe street.
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Onewolf426
Hellcat
This is why you are your best first responder. Even if they do get there in time, there is no guarantee that they will be able to stop the threat. Only you can prevent yourself from becoming a victim.
Onewolf426
Hellcat
There needs to be a serious investigation into just where the tax money is going in the Police Departments. They need to give an itemized bill of every single cent. Also, I think that before ANY officer gets a raise, they need to show proficiency with their firearm. Any contract negotiations, going forward, need to demand that the unions provide for proper firearms courses and training before ANY benefits or pay grade raises are agreed to. It is time these unions be held to account for what they are making money on.
Grayfox
Professional
When I worked for the City, we had an Animal Control officer who was working on his second career. He was a retired Police Officer. Each year he would join a group of full time officers on the range to keep up his firearm qualification. All these much younger guys with the latest whizz bang semi-autos and one old man shooting a S&W Model 10 revolver. He normally out shot them all. 
KillerFord1977
Emissary
Old_Me
Emissary
this kind of talk, although quite sensible to some, can lead to many running for office that want to.."defund the police, or abolish the police"...gives them your full support.
right now in fact, i always vote red...however, in my city's mayoral primary, there is a socialist running for mayor....
he's pro-defund the police....i want MY police to have what they want and need, no matter the cost.......i ant them to have new up to date patrol vehicles as often as they are needed, and high(er) powered weapons to combat the animals, that certainly have HIGHER powered weapons
i just may have to vote in the democratic primary come September, to rid such communists and socialists since i am a independent voter, i just this time, may have to do this....plus i just DO NOT WANT a pinko-commie in ANY office.........
then in the general election in November, vote red, as usual
What a novel concept, actually holding people accountable….nah, never work. You’d “offend” somebody.
KillerFord1977
Emissary
Pretty much nailed it
KillerFord1977
Emissary
Here is another gem..
head scratcher…how many times can you miss point blank. Well, 2 mags worth
head scratcher…how many times can you miss point blank. Well, 2 mags worth
UC_Guy 1971
Custom
Okay, I see where you are going with this but you have make sure the city on the other side of the contract is willing to pay. From what I've seen most municipal governments work hard to take away benefits, not fully fund them.
Also, every agency I have worked with or for, ensures that their agents pass firearms equals, DT equals, and so on.
Not every officer/deputy/agent is the same. Some are better shooters than others, and each one handles stressful situations differently.
However, I was in Colorado when a Trooper pulled over a car outside of Castle Rock on I-25. Before he could even get out the driver came out shooting. The Trooper responded by returning fire. He was shooting as he was bringing up his pistol. He shot his own car at least once. This isn't a put down of the Trooper. I have no idea what I would have done in that position.
HayesGreener
SAINT
Wyatt Earp's advice still holds true. What is missing for me in the video is the nature of the call. If it was a gun call from the outset the officer should have had a long gun in hand.
When the body and mind go into fight or flight, human performance in shooting goes to its lowest point. Tunnel vision occurs, fine motor skills deteriorate, some cognitive processes shut down, hearing can shut down, breathing changes and heartbeat accelerates. Your survival instincts are telling you to run away, not stand there and do "grip, sight alignment, sight picture, breathe, trigger management". It is precisely why we drill the fundamentals so hard. You build the neuromuscular memory to the point that the fundamentals are instinctive and automatic. Whatever training you have done, your performance will sink to the lowest point of your training.
Shooting skills are perishable. I have found over the years that if I go two weeks or more between practice sessions, my scores begin to fall off.
A balance of speed, power, and accuracy win the gunfight. The gun provides the power, the accuracy and speed are up to the shooter. But you can't outrun your headlights and sacrifice accuracy for speed. Like Wyatt said, you have to hurry up slowly.
When the body and mind go into fight or flight, human performance in shooting goes to its lowest point. Tunnel vision occurs, fine motor skills deteriorate, some cognitive processes shut down, hearing can shut down, breathing changes and heartbeat accelerates. Your survival instincts are telling you to run away, not stand there and do "grip, sight alignment, sight picture, breathe, trigger management". It is precisely why we drill the fundamentals so hard. You build the neuromuscular memory to the point that the fundamentals are instinctive and automatic. Whatever training you have done, your performance will sink to the lowest point of your training.
Shooting skills are perishable. I have found over the years that if I go two weeks or more between practice sessions, my scores begin to fall off.
A balance of speed, power, and accuracy win the gunfight. The gun provides the power, the accuracy and speed are up to the shooter. But you can't outrun your headlights and sacrifice accuracy for speed. Like Wyatt said, you have to hurry up slowly.
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HayesGreener
SAINT
Yes. There are 17,000 law enforcement agencies in the U.S., with a wide range of firearm training and qualification programs. Some qualify once per year to.meet minimum state certification standards, and some train much, much more. Training is expensive in terms of manpower and ammunition. Budgets and leadership are driving that bus. Kudos on those officers showing up at competition, at least they ae getting some trigger time.
The Military and LE that do poorly are usually a one and done. The ones that do decent probably come a few times a year.
There is a caveat though,
If an LE or Military shows up and shoots in duty gear they will not place as high as the division winners the way USPSA and IDPA do practiscore (over all not the LE or Military part)
For those folks that keep shootings in theor duty gear I applaud and instead of overall time look the amount of A some or down 0 hits
Gun games are fun but sometimes there is more to consistent split times and effective hits than cyclic
Stuff with C’s and minus 3’s
And no not knocking competition it’s like Formula 1 or Indy car vs a street car!