Is Constitutional Carry a Mistake?

[Bassbob]

But the fact still stands—I used to have no qualms about going to public ranges.

Now, because of a growing number of people who don’t know how to safely use firearms, I won’t go.

Which leads me to the conclusion, based on my experience, that there are more people who are dangerous to themselves and others than there were, say, 10 years ago.

Well, is there tangible evidence ? I mean something that will hold up in court ?

 

[HayesGreener]

It depends on where you are. As a P.I. I once worked a case where a guy at a public range shot himself in the leg with a Beretta 92 while drawing from his pocket. He sued the range, even though there were rules about not drawing and firing. The RSO was over feeding his face on BBQ at a fundraising skeet shoot instead of being on the handgun line where he belonged when it happened. As soon as I turned that tidbit up they settled as there was just no way of defending that.

 

[Anchorite]

Again, have you seen evidence of it actually being a problem ? I assume you see the F'ing morons who drive cars around you daily. That is a way bigger issue.

And for clarity, I am surely not saying to trust anyone you don't know and/haven't trained with.

Yes. I belong to a private range, which is to say we don’t allow membership until you’ve been both vetted and had a range day.
Some don’t make the cut.

And as for “evidence of it actually being a problem…,” I will submit to you that the first rule of firearm ownership and operation begins with safe practices, and that starts with the 6” between one’s ears.

Therein lies the problem …for most, the 6 inches has never been used or flexed when it comes to firearms and critical thinking. I’d further suggest that the average education level of today’s American civilian is around the eight grade.

 

[Bassbob]

Yes. I belong to a private range, which is to say we don’t allow membership until you’ve been both vetted and had a range day.
Some don’t make the cut.

And as for “evidence of it actually being a problem…,” I will submit to you that the first rule of firearm ownership and operation begins with safe practices, and that starts with the 6” between one’s ears.

Therein lies the problem …for most, the 6 inches has never been used or flexed when it comes to firearms and critical thinking. I’d further suggest that the average education level of today’s American civilian is around the eight grade.

I agree, but show me evidence that people, besides hood rats and criminals, carrying guns without a permit or mandated training has or will result in problematic rates of accidental shootings.

 

[Sharks79]

I agree, but show me evidence that people, besides hood rats and criminals, carrying guns without a permit or mandated training has or will result in problematic rates of accidental shootings.

Next time i’m at the range will take a few pictures of holes in the concrete walls and cracked ballistic glass between shooting stalls That said, can’t say that wasn’t done by a dumb dumb hood or overall numpty

 

[Bassbob]

Next time i’m at the range will take a few pictures of holes in the concrete walls and cracked ballistic glass between shooting stalls That said, can’t say that wasn’t done by a dumb dumb hood or overall numpty

Oh, in that case that settles it. We should absolutely have federal laws mandating firearm training before anyone can exercise their constitutional rights then. We can just leave it up to congress to decide how much and what kind of training.

 

[Sharks79]

Oh, in that case that settles it. We should absolutely have federal laws mandating firearm training before anyone can exercise their constitutional rights then. We can just leave it up to congress to decide how much and what kind of training.

Going zero to 100 a bit. You asked for some examples and I provided. Not really sure your comment.

I didn’t say anything about anything you stated, just that I can show examples of bad firearm handling.

 

[Bassbob]

Going zero to 100 a bit. You asked for some examples and I provided. Not really sure your comment.

I didn’t say anything about anything you stated, just that I can show examples of bad firearm handling.

I didn’t ask for photographic evidence of morons shooting the ceiling at a gun range.

“show me evidence that people, besides hood rats and criminals, carrying guns without a permit or mandated training has or will result in problematic rates of accidental shootings.”


So yea, I would say you “aren’t really sure my comment.”

 

[Anchorite]

I didn’t ask for photographic evidence of morons shooting the ceiling at a gun range.

“show me evidence that people, besides hood rats and criminals, carrying guns without a permit or mandated training has or will result in problematic rates of accidental shootings.”


So yea, I would say you “aren’t really sure my comment.”

The Alec Baldwin / Rust movie set comes to mind, as does the controversy surrounding the Sig P320.

And although I suspect it has more to do with carelessness in the storage of the firearms, there are tragically children that are accidental victims.

In my former example there was a certain level of experience involved. The latter, I’m not so sure.

I think we’d have to define the parameters of the discussion going forward. There are accidents as a result of negligence and then there are what I will generically refer to as “all the others,” the unintended consequences that a can only be the result of handling because guns don’t discharge themselves.

 

[Bassbob]

The Alec Baldwin / Rust movie set comes to mind, as does the controversy surrounding the Sig P320.

And although I suspect it has more to do with carelessness in the storage of the firearms, there are tragically children that are accidental victims.

In my former example there was a certain level of experience involved. The latter, I’m not so sure.

I think we’d have to define the parameters of the discussion going forward. There are accidents as a result of negligence and then there are what I will generically refer to as “all the others,” the unintended consequences that a can only be the result of handling because guns don’t discharge themselves.

Well, the topic is constitutional carry. So I think the parameters are the same thing as they have been since we started having this conversation about it a couple years ago. And which I have alluded to, well, really clearly outright stated, no less than 5 times in this thread so far.

Law abiding citizens carrying guns for self defense without mandatory firearms training resulting in statistically significant accidental shootings.

And we have already decided that the little 8-16 hour classes most states require to obtain a CCW permit do NOT qualify as actual training.

 

[Sharks79]

I didn’t ask for photographic evidence of morons shooting the ceiling at a gun range.

“show me evidence that people, besides hood rats and criminals, carrying guns without a permit or mandated training has or will result in problematic rates of accidental shootings.”


So yea, I would say you “aren’t really sure my comment.”

Same morons would likely lead to accidental shootings no? Amd without any regulation same dumb dumbs would be walking around with a firearm in waistband of shorts and shoot the junk off . There is a video on YouTube of a guy getting interviewed and it goes off in his pocket. Pretty funny stuff

No permit been a big uptick in last 5/6 years with number of states doubling and including states with higher population and more densely populated cities. Wyoming data is probably not a good representation of how things could go in georgia or florida. A very quick search found a study by Johns Hopkins on an increase in gun crime after relaxed laws. Quickly looked so only able to read the abstract while taking my morning glory.

Study Finds Significant Increase in Firearm Assaults in States that Relaxed Conceal Carry Permit Restrictions | Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health

Analysis also reveals that some conceal carry provisions, like prohibiting those convicted of violent misdemeanors from obtaining a permit, reduced risks linked to civilian gun carrying

publichealth.jhu.edu

As for my opinion. My concealed class was very informative specifically around laws and anecdotal info and experiences shared by instructor. It was a one day thing and I would recommend.

 

[Bassbob]

Same morons would likely lead to accidental shootings no? Amd without any regulation same dumb dumbs would be walking around with a firearm in waistband of shorts and shoot the junk off . There is a video on YouTube of a guy getting interviewed and it goes off in his pocket. Pretty funny stuff

No permit been a big uptick in last 5/6 years with number of states doubling and including states with higher population and more densely populated cities. Wyoming data is probably not a good representation of how things could go in georgia or florida. A very quick search found a study by Johns Hopkins on an increase in gun crime after relaxed laws. Quickly looked so only able to read the abstract while taking my morning glory.

Study Finds Significant Increase in Firearm Assaults in States that Relaxed Conceal Carry Permit Restrictions | Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health

Analysis also reveals that some conceal carry provisions, like prohibiting those convicted of violent misdemeanors from obtaining a permit, reduced risks linked to civilian gun carrying

publichealth.jhu.edu

As for my opinion. My concealed class was very informative specifically around laws and anecdotal info and experiences shared by instructor. It was a one day thing and I would recommend.

So you post an anti gun hit piece against permitless carry, stating an alleged increase in crime, as proof of a problematic increase in accidental shootings in permitless carry states ?

I’m not even sure how to respond to this without coming off like a condescending prick. Could you maybe just address the actual question ? Or at a minimum postulate a coherent argument about why you think the government should mandate a required training class before citizens can exercise their 2A rights, possibly citing actual evidence that backs up your argument if it’s not too much trouble. I mean constitutional carry has been around in some states well over a decade or two, surely you can find some right ?

 

[Sharks79]

I just did. The first 10 years how many states was it? It’s still early and I’m interested to see the data come in. Until this thread I haven’t given much thought to the topic and came in and still have an open mind. What I mentioned was just basis of statistics that as more people have the ability to carry, the potential (key word) for accidents goes up. That’s just math bud.

And if your just going to call anything showing opposition as an attack piece you just sound silly.

you really went hiding the condescending prick thing but it’s cool, I like it!

 

[Bassbob]

I just did. The first 10 years how many states was it? It’s still early and I’m interested to see the data come in. Until this thread I haven’t given much thought to the topic and came in and still have an open mind. What I mentioned was just basis of statistics that as more people have the ability to carry, the potential (key word) for accidents goes up. That’s just math bud.

And if your just going to call anything showing opposition as an attack piece you just sound silly.

you really went hiding the condescending prick thing but it’s cool, I like it!

You have serious reading comprehension issues. An alleged increase in gun crimes is not evidence of untrained law abiding citizens having accidental shootings.

You understand what the argument here is right ? Some here are concerned permitless carry will result in untrained people carrying guns endangering the public at large. So maybe you can point out specifically which part of your link up there addresses that.

 

[Bassbob]

Also, while you wait for new data, it may be helpful to understand that we’ve been having this conversation here on this forum for probably 5 years or better now. And constitutional carry is several decades old in many places. So you may be waiting awhile for data, manipulated or otherwise, that backs up your position.