Jacksonville Sheriff's Office allows officers to carry something other than Glock

[ECS686]

Well placed shots to kill or incapacitate so they no longer pose a threat to you or your team. That’s what we were taught in the Army.
The .45 ACP was designed to do just that

While I won’t say a 45 is bad as I like the round. What has been proven is **** placement and Penetration solve more issues than caliber expansion and mag capacity do.

2 hits in the same place no matter the caliber are going to have equal results with the one exception a 357 mag you can get more rifle like trama from speed alone.

The 38 special had almost a century of use by cops and most were successful in dumping violent felons in the 30’s 50’s and 60’s even 79’s and most of that time was 158 lead round nose of some variety until the early 70’s.

Of course when you went to any department lit uiu saw a ton of Military or NRA window stickers and maybe a POC or NRA distinguished Match champion sticker. You just don’t see that in parking lots these days.
And with the number of rounds going up almost like it is connected !!!

 

[Warrior9(Ret)]

While I won’t say a 45 is bad as I like the round. What has been proven is **** placement and Penetration solve more issues than caliber expansion and mag capacity do.

2 hits in the same place no matter the caliber are going to have equal results with the one exception a 357 mag you can get more rifle like trama from speed alone.

The 38 special had almost a century of use by cops and most were successful in dumping violent felons in the 30’s 50’s and 60’s even 79’s and most of that time was 158 lead round nose of some variety until the early 70’s.

Of course when you went to any department lit uiu saw a ton of Military or NRA window stickers and maybe a POC or NRA distinguished Match champion sticker. You just don’t see that in parking lots these days.
And with the number of rounds going up almost like it is connected !!!

I only have real world experience with military issue ball ammo. The same center mass upper torso 2 round placement in .45 ACP dropped them dead.
9mm put them down but sometimes not out.

 

[ECS686]

I only have real world experience with military issue ball ammo. The same center mass upper torso 2 round placement in .45 ACP dropped them dead.
9mm put them down but sometimes not out.

I’ve seen a couple guys live with center punch 45 230 JHp hit. There’s no magic bullet. Even the “they all fall to hardball” was proven as BS.

It baffles me how the 9mm with ball worked just fine in Rhodesia and all the African wars if the 70’s as well as European Police uses but in America to hear it talk!!!

So while as individuals we might have a witnessed case here or there if you look at documented cases and actual witness statements (not hall way or locker room talk and regurgitation of “I heard it from a guy” stories)

All handguns are only good to poke holes in things and ft pounds really mean nothing below 700 ft pounds!

 

[Jester560]

Wish I could have carried a staccato!

Wish i could afford one

 

[Onewolf426]

I’ve seen a couple guys live with center punch 45 230 JHp hit. There’s no magic bullet. Even the “they all fall to hardball” was proven as BS.

It baffles me how the 9mm with ball worked just fine in Rhodesia and all the African wars if the 70’s as well as European Police uses but in America to hear it talk!!!

So while as individuals we might have a witnessed case here or there if you look at documented cases and actual witness statements (not hall way or locker room talk and regurgitation of “I heard it from a guy” stories)

All handguns are only good to poke holes in things and ft pounds really mean nothing below 700 ft pounds!

Well, it is 32 lbs.ft. to properly torque the crush washer for my oil pan bolt. So, below 700 ft. pounds is just as important.

 

[ECS686]

Well, it is 32 lbs.ft. to properly torque the crush washer for my oil pan bolt. So, below 700 ft. pounds is just as important.

I get your humor!

The point is a lot of folks also get worried about a round has to have 400 foot pounds or more well a 22 lr hit from a rifle is usually fatal (10/22 specifically because most folks run decent ammo in them) and you know a 22 LR is way low!

 

[HansGruber]

Foot pounds are, for all practical purposes, useless in judging handgun effectiveness.

Placement & permanent wound channel are what matters.