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LEO charged over Accidental discharge

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ECS686

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First this isn’t a bashing thread so don’t go there. And sort of king but it’ss all connected to safe firearm handling so bear with me.

As a LE trainer I have seen issues with both other trainers and students and as the Lead have addressed them. I also have seen many many more issues on civilian ranges so nobody can throw stones at any group really.

Just information and to show folks can and are starting to be held we will say responsible in this case for their actions. This is a case where having a firearm is a lifestyle change and the 4 rules are not merely suggestions.

Also my observation while everyone my age has done it back in the day and it was acceptable LE needs to stop pointing guns at people for BS misdemeanors where Deadly force is not legal. 2 reasons. 1 with the easier to shoot Striker guns the wrong people are getting shot due to poor crisis management skills (why you are seeing multiple rounds in bad shoots aka Houston amd people are allowed to have a gun in their house and holding it at their side answering a knock at 2 am in Houston is not out of the ordinary)

And 2 you will see an LEO charged in the next few years for pointing a gun at some BS misdemeanor. Why departments worth their wait has went to low ready aka Muzzle off Meat they are just as quicknif it changes and they are not the ones shooting the wrong folks.

 
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Hmm. A co-worker of mine has a friend who is a STL county cop. This cop has picked him up, in his patrol car and let him drive it around while they're drinking beer, turning on the siren, etc.. This same cop shot himself in the leg with his Glock awhile back " Practicing his draw".

I have 3 or 4 cousins, aunts and uncles who are and were FBI agents. Every last one of them is a cocky, holier than thou know it all. Not a single one of them would I want anywhere near me with a gun. Me being me, I have had conversations with them about guns, tactics, ammo, holsters and everything else you can imagine that's related to this thing we talk about here. I'm not sure what kind of actual training the FBI gives their agents, but I am sure that either my relatives ignored it or the training they received was minimal and/or retarded.

We've had these conversations here a few times and it's important to point out that like every walk of life there are righteous people and pieces of crap mixed together in various and changing ratios. I personally know and train with some cops that badge or no badge I would not want to go up against. Cops who took the job because they feel some innate force drawing them to a life of serving their fellow humans and living slightly above the poverty line. I also know cops who more than once have solicited advice from me ( of all people :rolleyes: ) about guns and gun related activities/scenarios. I know cops who clearly became cops because they want to use a badge and a gun to make themselves feel powerful. Push around all those people who beat the hell out of them in high school.

I have also had quite a few experiences with FBI agents. A couple of who were genuinely good people with the right motivation and the right head space for the job. And others who were absolute pieces of :poop:.

Here's a brief ( hopefully) story about an FBI agent I met. A few years back I was tasked with installing a whole bunch of big gas main for the new major league soccer stadium they were building downtown. This was pre covid and there was a definite time component. The stadium had to be complete by a certain date or else MLS would not award St. Louis an expansion team. Some rich people, including Stan Kronky's daughter were bankrolling this thing and I was given unlimited resources and overtime to get the job done. So one of the two major locations where I was tying into 12" steel IP gas mains with 8" poly just happened to be 100 yards or so from the downtown FBI office. This office is situated on a street that runs from Market ( very busy all the time) and curves up to Jefferson, near a gas station where these agents routinely get snacks or whatever it is FBI agents get from gas stations. They were used to the short route up to Jefferson as opposed to going out on Market and then going up to Jefferson. I had to open cut across the street ( 24th St. which is the street their office is located on) As such I had steel street plates I would cover my trench with at night. Well it's about 8 AM one morning and I have all the street plates off the ditch and I am digging out concrete and rebar and cleaning it out with a trackhoe to make it suitable to drop gas main in. A car pulls up in front of me and starts honking his horn. I just kind of point to the trench and throw my hands in the air. He continues honking. So I get off my tractor and walk to his car and tell him he'll have to turn around and go out Market. He flips out his badge and says he's going out Jefferson. I tell him he isn't and go get back in my tractor and continue digging. He sits there a few minutes more and then turns around and apparently goes out Market. About 20 minutes later one of my supervisors comes and stops me and asks me what happened ( Our building downtown is just a couple blocks away). I tell him and he leaves. He comes back around lunch time and fails to address the situation at all, so I ask about it. He tells me the FBI agent called downtown to our headquarters and was told that unless he wanted to be responsible for STL not getting a soccer team he was going to have to go out via Market St. It's the only time I can recall that I was actually proud of upper management.
 
ECS686 said:
First this isn’t a bashing thread so don’t go there.
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1st I'm not into bashing peace officers. Maybe I'm feeling a bit contrary this morning, but really. "don't go there":mad:;)

One IRS shooting another doesn't sound like a tragedy to me, more like a good start. :ROFLMAO: Sorry couldn't help myself.

Working on the gate at a prison I came into contact with in-state, out of state, county, local, feds, and pirate transport contractors. Some of the stories I could tell are hard for me to believe and I witnessed them. Bottom line is, no matter if it's gun safety or how to bake a cake, Ya can't teach a fence post or someone that already knows everything. There seems to be a lot more know-it-alls/ can't tell em nothing, than there used to be. And, that's probably just me being an old, grumpy, intolerant, bast....
 
ECS686 said:
First this isn’t a bashing thread so don’t go there. And sort of king but it’ss all connected to safe firearm handling so bear with me.

As a LE trainer I have seen issues with both other trainers and students and as the Lead have addressed them. I also have seen many many more issues on civilian ranges so nobody can throw stones at any group really.

Just information and to show folks can and are starting to be held we will say responsible in this case for their actions. This is a case where having a firearm is a lifestyle change and the 4 rules are not merely suggestions.

Also my observation while everyone my age has done it back in the day and it was acceptable LE needs to stop pointing guns at people for BS misdemeanors where Deadly force is not legal. 2 reasons. 1 with the easier to shoot Striker guns the wrong people are getting shot due to poor crisis management skills (why you are seeing multiple rounds in bad shoots aka Houston amd people are allowed to have a gun in their house and holding it at their side answering a knock at 2 am in Houston is not out of the ordinary)

And 2 you will see an LEO charged in the next few years for pointing a gun at some BS misdemeanor. Why departments worth their wait has went to low ready aka Muzzle off Meat they are just as quicknif it changes and they are not the ones shooting the wrong folks.

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Vietnam and all the years as a LEO, didnt do anything foolish
 
This is also a post not thrashing LE personal, when my new sheriff dept opened up and I got assigned to work there, in the new men’s locker room a sgt was holstering his S&W 4506 and squeezed the trigger and pistol went off shooting a hole in a storage door, nobody got hurt, then a month later in the deputies room, one was looking at another’s new Colt 1911 flipped safety off and pressed the trigger shooting a hole in the desk, again no injuries, after these 2 incidents the sheriff decided to have training again on safe handling of firearms, to me, this should have always been implemented, but what do I know……
 
I don't know why this is so hard. Rule #1. keep your booger digger off the bang switch. That will cover 90% of all scenarios. Then you can get into more complicated ideas like treat all guns as if they are loaded, know your backstop, don't point it at anything you're not willing to destroy, etc.
 
bc22wm said:
1st I'm not into bashing peace officers. Maybe I'm feeling a bit contrary this morning, but really. "don't go there":mad:;)

One IRS shooting another doesn't sound like a tragedy to me, more like a good start. :ROFLMAO: Sorry couldn't help myself.
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and if we can gather up all the lawyers, anti 2A people, and politicians and send them on a voyage far, far away on a sinking ship.. with no life rafts, or life preservers, but maybe chains, and cinder blocks.. and Ford V-6 engines......????

the better off we are as well.
 
HansGruber said:
Not accidental.

Negligent.

People who kill others through negligence should be prosecuted.

Dot, period, end of story.
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That whole Ignorance =you didn’t know any better (say a young child) vs carelessness = you knew better but did it anyway I’d agree.

I was lucky I never saw any deaths but I did see some serious injuries one was an absolute fluke. SORT team at an unnamed Federal Complex was certifying on a multi weapons course. Part of it was 2 moved together engaging with MP5 the person to the lefts brass ejected and bank shot between the sunglasses and to the person in the right and the brass stuck to the persons eye. He lost that eye. No hat was used because in the COF they put in and took off gas masks at various stages. Hats with bills became mandated after that.

A few others have lost digits of off hand fingers with Colt SMG or MP5’s but that’s sort of a self correcting problem or will be after 4 more times. Flashlight handgaurds were managed after that! Especially with the MP5 as the factory friend tapers to the muzzle
 
Bassbob said:
Hmm. A co-worker of mine has a friend who is a STL county cop. This cop has picked him up, in his patrol car and let him drive it around while they're drinking beer, turning on the siren, etc.. This same cop shot himself in the leg with his Glock awhile back " Practicing his draw".

I have 3 or 4 cousins, aunts and uncles who are and were FBI agents. Every last one of them is a cocky, holier than thou know it all. Not a single one of them would I want anywhere near me with a gun. Me being me, I have had conversations with them about guns, tactics, ammo, holsters and everything else you can imagine that's related to this thing we talk about here. I'm not sure what kind of actual training the FBI gives their agents, but I am sure that either my relatives ignored it or the training they received was minimal and/or retarded.

We've had these conversations here a few times and it's important to point out that like every walk of life there are righteous people and pieces of crap mixed together in various and changing ratios. I personally know and train with some cops that badge or no badge I would not want to go up against. Cops who took the job because they feel some innate force drawing them to a life of serving their fellow humans and living slightly above the poverty line. I also know cops who more than once have solicited advice from me ( of all people :rolleyes: ) about guns and gun related activities/scenarios. I know cops who clearly became cops because they want to use a badge and a gun to make themselves feel powerful. Push around all those people who beat the hell out of them in high school.

I have also had quite a few experiences with FBI agents. A couple of who were genuinely good people with the right motivation and the right head space for the job. And others who were absolute pieces of :poop:.

Here's a brief ( hopefully) story about an FBI agent I met. A few years back I was tasked with installing a whole bunch of big gas main for the new major league soccer stadium they were building downtown. This was pre covid and there was a definite time component. The stadium had to be complete by a certain date or else MLS would not award St. Louis an expansion team. Some rich people, including Stan Kronky's daughter were bankrolling this thing and I was given unlimited resources and overtime to get the job done. So one of the two major locations where I was tying into 12" steel IP gas mains with 8" poly just happened to be 100 yards or so from the downtown FBI office. This office is situated on a street that runs from Market ( very busy all the time) and curves up to Jefferson, near a gas station where these agents routinely get snacks or whatever it is FBI agents get from gas stations. They were used to the short route up to Jefferson as opposed to going out on Market and then going up to Jefferson. I had to open cut across the street ( 24th St. which is the street their office is located on) As such I had steel street plates I would cover my trench with at night. Well it's about 8 AM one morning and I have all the street plates off the ditch and I am digging out concrete and rebar and cleaning it out with a trackhoe to make it suitable to drop gas main in. A car pulls up in front of me and starts honking his horn. I just kind of point to the trench and throw my hands in the air. He continues honking. So I get off my tractor and walk to his car and tell him he'll have to turn around and go out Market. He flips out his badge and says he's going out Jefferson. I tell him he isn't and go get back in my tractor and continue digging. He sits there a few minutes more and then turns around and apparently goes out Market. About 20 minutes later one of my supervisors comes and stops me and asks me what happened ( Our building downtown is just a couple blocks away). I tell him and he leaves. He comes back around lunch time and fails to address the situation at all, so I ask about it. He tells me the FBI agent called downtown to our headquarters and was told that unless he wanted to be responsible for STL not getting a soccer team he was going to have to go out via Market St. It's the only time I can recall that I was actually proud of upper management.
Click to expand...
Were any of your relatives street cops first, probably not. My USSS buddy was a Houston PD cop first; another USSS agent i knew, also HPD COP
 
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