Life After Corona

[10mmLife]

I like everything Peglegjoe had to say, and agree that the press is doing its best to stir up hysteria. Even with folks working from home and such, was there any real reason for the stock market to lose 35% of its value, killing retirement plans for many of us? Not that I can see, other than mass hysteria. And I feel that the media, and the corrupt Chinese government that is to blame for this world wide mess, for the most part WANTS that mass hysteria, especially in the US, as they don't like the current administration, and want to see it taken down by any means necessary.

I feel that the social distancing, even once COVID-19 slows down, will remain for a while. We will see more fist bumps and less hand shakes. You will hug your kids more, but your friends less. At least for a while. I teach a Lifegroup at my church (Sunday school we used to call it), and we've moved to an online format using Zoom, and I had 22 of the usual 35 to 40 folks actually all online in a 22 way video conference this past Sunday morning. So, life goes on, we adapt, and we do a little more FaceTime and Zoom for the time being.

We are approaching month end, and for my employer, folks who owe us money that is needed to make payroll and pay our bills are not answering their phones. We deal with customers like Seaworld and Universal Studios, Margaritaville, Old Time Pottery, and so on - all places that are shut down right now. So, time will tell if 35 years in business can survive many of our customers being shutdown, even when we are not. As a part owner, I fully expect a call any day now asking me to take a pay cut or skip some pay checks, which means tapping into savings that are decimated by the market downturn.

The economic impact will be great at first but there is already a lot of jobs with contracts and money spent that were going good when this started so hopefully the vast majority of us can jump start the economy if it opens back up soon and the impact maybe short lived.
I'm not an economists but I try and be an optimist!

Here's to hope!

 

[10mmLife]

For me I am taking this serious.
I have Multiple Meyloma cancer that has no cure, so my immune system is very compromised.
I had a stem cell transplant and I was in the hospital being isolated for a month it got old real fast same room same floor.
So this home confinement is already old, but I need to do this for me.
So for all the morons who think they are invincible and can do what they want, go ahead and kill yourself just don't take me with you.

Sorry to hear that Wirenut a lot of people don't think of this especially if they don't know anyone directly at risk. Hopefully this will open others minds to the impact this can have on certain people.

Take care of yourself.

 

[Wirenut]

I don't disagree with you, Licensed...(and thank you for your work). We are seeing a sudden influx, and that timing is likely causing more problems than the total numbers would if it were spread out. Hence, the distancing.

I still question the mortality rate though. We're being told NOT to get tested, if we're asymptomatic.

I'll ask again - how many asymptomatic people HAVE it...and simply get over it? Never checked, never logged, never visit healthcare. How many are there? What does that do to the curve?

Once again - the models showed hundreds of thousands of bodies by now...and the USA just crested 1,000 dead.

The news cycle is now parroting "USA has highest number of COVID cases worldwide". OK - but we also have 329 MILLION souls living here. Italy? 60 million. One-FIFTH the size of the US. France, 66M. Britain, 66M. Well, duh. If this (or any) disease infects x out of Y people, we're GOING to have more cases than any other country simply because we're bigger than they are to start with. Exponentially bigger.

And to re-state for Wirenut - I agree, this is a deadly disease for those who have pre-existing conditions, and I do not willfully endanger other people if I can at all help it. I just don't see this being a species-killer worthy of shutting down all of Western Civilization. The pieces don't match. It don't add up.

My frustration come from these young people that think everything is normal.
In Chicago the police had to shut down the lakefront. because of large groups of people on the beach, playing volleyball and house parties just going about their business not caring if they bring this to their homes or their parents and grandparents.
Those are the ones I have an issue with.
It's a shame the police have to deal with these morons instead of doing real police work.
You can call it Marshal Law or overstepping police powers, but young adults maybe for the first time in their lives should act like an adult.

 

[Tenbones]

Only time will tell what the aftermath of corona will be like.

I remember growing up in the 50's the government budgets in the millions raising concern, then the budgets grew into the billions and now the govenment is tossing around trillions! The outcome of this can't be good.

As far as the Covid virus is concerned, the media makes it sound like this is the only thing killing people!
It is certainly something to be concerned about and we need to follow the precautions for it. In the U.S., heart disease still kills close to 700K people a year, cancer close to 600K, influenza and pneumonia close to 60K a year, to name a few. This is a dangerous world we live in regardless of the coronavirus and with everything else that is going on, the last thing we need to do is panic about it.

 

[Peglegjoe]

Here's one of my posts from one of my motorcycle forums:

Doing the math...those numbers (projected mortality of between 38,000 and 160,000 Americans, with a likely number of 80,000 Americans) show a 0.0025% mortality rate based on the American population of 329,000,000.

Even their high-end 160k number...is still only five tenths of a percentage point of the American public.

Is 160,000 people dead horrible? Absolutely. But for the individual...one person out of every 2000 could die on their high end; one out of 4000 on their 80k number. At their low end of 38k, the chances of an individual dying from this virus would drop closer to 1 in 10,000.

Not trying to minimize, nor rationalize. But...let's use some perspective here folks. We're killing Western civilization for this.

Perspective:

According to the National Safety Council, your odds of dying of various causes are:
Heart disease, 1 in 6.
Cancer, 1 in 7.
Stroke, 1 in 28.
Motor vehicle accidents, 1 in 88.
Intentional self-harm, 1 in 112.
Accidental poisoning and exposure to noxious substances, 1 in 130.
Falls, 1 in 171.
Car crashes, 1 in 303.

 

[10mmLife]

My frustration come from these young people that think everything is normal.
In Chicago the police had to shut down the lakefront. because of large groups of people on the beach, playing volleyball and house parties just going about their business not caring if they bring this to their homes or their parents and grandparents.
Those are the ones I have an issue with.
It's a shame the police have to deal with these morons instead of doing real police work.
You can call it Marshal Law or overstepping police powers, but young adults maybe for the first time in their lives should act like an adult.

I feel the younger generation has less empathy then previous generations and a lot it it has to do with lack of physical interaction having their heads buried in their phones every minute of the day. You can see this lack of empathy whenever there is a tragic event when they all just record or take pictures of the event to post on social media instead of helping or moving along to let in first responders.

 

[Wirenut]

I feel the younger generation has less empathy then previous generations and a lot it it has to do with lack of physical interaction having their heads buried in their phones every minute of the day. You can see this lack of empathy whenever there is a tragic event when they all just record or take pictures of the event to post on social media instead of helping or moving along to let in first responders.

Exactly Thank You!!
I see some like to quote death statistics, I'm guessing to justify their thinking that I can do what I want, because people die everyday and the public is overreacting.
If you feel that death by this virus may never happen to you or your family then by all means go out like nothing is going on.
What is so hard to abide by the CDC guidelines until someone gets a handle on this virus.
Remember if you bring this virus to your family by being reckless you can always say the statistics just didn't show that or it wasn't me someone gave it to me.
If you are fine with having someone in your family die a horrible death because it infringed on your play time then by all means do your thing, just hope you can live with that.

 

[LicensedToPill]

I don't disagree with you, Licensed...(and thank you for your work). We are seeing a sudden influx, and that timing is likely causing more problems than the total numbers would if it were spread out. Hence, the distancing.

I still question the mortality rate though. We're being told NOT to get tested, if we're asymptomatic.

I'll ask again - how many asymptomatic people HAVE it...and simply get over it? Never checked, never logged, never visit healthcare. How many are there? What does that do to the curve?

Once again - the models showed hundreds of thousands of bodies by now...and the USA just crested 1,000 dead.

The news cycle is now parroting "USA has highest number of COVID cases worldwide". OK - but we also have 329 MILLION souls living here. Italy? 60 million. One-FIFTH the size of the US. France, 66M. Britain, 66M. Well, duh. If this (or any) disease infects x out of Y people, we're GOING to have more cases than any other country simply because we're bigger than they are to start with. Exponentially bigger.

And to re-state for Wirenut - I agree, this is a deadly disease for those who have pre-existing conditions, and I do not willfully endanger other people if I can at all help it. I just don't see this being a species-killer worthy of shutting down all of Western Civilization. The pieces don't match. It don't add up.

I definitely understand your point. The reason why we can’t test everyone is because we were extremely underprepared as a country to fight this - it wasn’t taken seriously until it became too late to prepare. Our nation’s response was reactive and not proactive. Thus, we don’t have the resources to test everyone, which means we have to limit criteria for who should be tested. We are currently getting more equipment and test supplies to test more and more people with less restrictions, which is a good thing. And hopefully soon we can test everyone. The other huge issue, is that Americans, in general, are extremely selfish, and only care about themselves (I’m not saying every single person in the country, but as a whole). Many people don’t listen to CDC recommendations and think that all of this is blown out of proportion and it doesn’t matter. This mindset leads to the spread of the virus to people who will die from it. For example, we had a family of 7 attend a family/friend cookout, despite the CDC recommendations to not do just this. All 7 members of the family contracted COVID-19 and 4 of them died (one in my hospital). And because of this, the government has to mandate shutting things down, in order to force people to listen. There was a video this morning of the NYC subway completely packed with non-essential people out and about (this is why NYC is in critical condition right now). We truly won’t be able to know the exact mortality rate until this is all over, but we can try to calculate it the best we can with the numbers we have. But, because people still go out to Target, or other places, because they are “board,” this will continue longer than it should.

 

[Tenbones]

I see some like to quote death statistics, I'm guessing to justify their thinking that I can do what I want, because people die everyday and the public is overreacting.

Then you'd be guessing wrong!!

 

[Talyn]

Other than some inconveniences & changes to the normal flow of life in my area my day-day routine is pretty much unchanged.

 

[10mmLife]

I definitely understand your point. The reason why we can’t test everyone is because we were extremely underprepared as a country to fight this - it wasn’t taken seriously until it became too late to prepare. Our nation’s response was reactive and not proactive. Thus, we don’t have the resources to test everyone, which means we have to limit criteria for who should be tested. We are currently getting more equipment and test supplies to test more and more people with less restrictions, which is a good thing. And hopefully soon we can test everyone. The other huge issue, is that Americans, in general, are extremely selfish, and only care about themselves (I’m not saying every single person in the country, but as a whole). Many people don’t listen to CDC recommendations and think that all of this is blown out of proportion and it doesn’t matter. This mindset leads to the spread of the virus to people who will die from it. For example, we had a family of 7 attend a family/friend cookout, despite the CDC recommendations to not do just this. All 7 members of the family contracted COVID-19 and 4 of them died (one in my hospital). And because of this, the government has to mandate shutting things down, in order to force people to listen. There was a video this morning of the NYC subway completely packed with non-essential people out and about (this is why NYC is in critical condition right now). We truly won’t be able to know the exact mortality rate until this is all over, but we can try to calculate it the best we can with the numbers we have. But, because people still go out to Target, or other places, because they are “board,” this will continue longer than it should.

I think most people are reacting to this by looking at the situation as how it affects them and their daily life. There's a ton of people who only are feeling the economic impact and are not in the high risk group so they tend to dismiss the whole danger to public side of this illness. This whole pandemic is screwing with everyone on a different level.

 

[LicensedToPill]

I think most people are reacting to this by looking at the situation as how it affects them and their daily life. There's a ton of people who only are feeling the economic impact and are not in the high risk group so they tend to dismiss the whole danger to public side of this illness. This whole pandemic is screwing with everyone on a different level.

I totally agree. Some people are not really afected at all, some have been devistated. As a nation, we need to treat this situation like we are all being affected in the same way. I understand how it’s tough to view this pandemic as an issue when it doesn’t affect that person, but we need to try and think how it could affect others both in a health and economic standpoint. People think that because I’m essential personal at the hospital, that I’m not affected economically...but I am. I’m salary, but my pay was cut by 20% indefinitely (not asking for a pity party, I’m doing fine), but healthcare workers are at the highest risk of getting COVID-19. I work at one of the most profitable non-profit health networks in PA, and we are projected to lose $50 million in just the month of March because of the pandemic. Rural hospitals, whom basically operate in the red 24/7, will not recover and will be shut down. And, for many people, these hospitals are the ones treating COVID-19 patients in their area.

 

[southtex]

It is hard to make mortality rates something more than they are. People try to mold them to fit their agenda. Thousands of people get the "flu" and don't seek treatment which would lower that number. From what my oncologist stated Covid 19 is far more aggressive in the respiratory systems of the challenged. I find it amazing that Corona can be politicized and for all of the doubters when was the last time we saw refrigerated trailers being used as temporary morgue. What I have learned from this is 2 things (1) We are far more challenged in leadership and the ability to make sound decisions than I would have thought (IMO) (2) The wife and I have seen an increase in discretionary money which could lead to more guns.
I am extremely disappointed in the selfishness, lack of recognition, the deep rooted beliefs in conspiracy theories and the fact that anyone that doesn't say what I believe has to be wrong. I know it sounds corny but this should be a time when unity is required

 

[Peglegjoe]

Are the trailers being used because of the huge numbers of bodies? Word is that today, the entire USA death toll was 1400 and change...

Or, are the trailers being used because everything is shut down? Morgues are closed, funeral homes are closed, families are stuck at home because of SIP commands...

1,400 NATIONAL deaths, doesn't sound like "there's so many bodies we're out of places to keep them" to me.

 

[LicensedToPill]

It is hard to make mortality rates something more than they are. People try to mold them to fit their agenda. Thousands of people get the "flu" and don't seek treatment which would lower that number. From what my oncologist stated Covid 19 is far more aggressive in the respiratory systems of the challenged. I find it amazing that Corona can be politicized and for all of the doubters when was the last time we saw refrigerated trailers being used as temporary morgue. What I have learned from this is 2 things (1) We are far more challenged in leadership and the ability to make sound decisions than I would have thought (IMO) (2) The wife and I have seen an increase in discretionary money which could lead to more guns.
I am extremely disappointed in the selfishness, lack of recognition, the deep rooted beliefs in conspiracy theories and the fact that anyone that doesn't say what I believe has to be wrong. I know it sounds corny but this should be a time when unity is required

Couldn’t agree with you more. Based on my job, I have the ability to see what patients’ chest x-rays are with the flu vs. COVID-19...it is wildly different. A symptomatic patient’s chest x-ray with COVID-19 is a disaster compared to the typical flu.

 

[LicensedToPill]

Are the trailers being used because of the huge numbers of bodies? Word is that today, the entire USA death toll was 1400 and change...

Or, are the trailers being used because everything is shut down? Morgues are closed, funeral homes are closed, families are stuck at home because of SIP commands...

1,400 NATIONAL deaths, doesn't sound like "there's so many bodies we're out of places to keep them" to me.

IMO, the issue has to do with inhibiting the spread of the virus. Just because a patient has died, doesn’t mean the virus dies immediately with the patient. It can still live for an undetermined amount of time. They don’t want healthy, unprotected, people manipulating the bodies right after death and exposing themselves.

 

[LicensedToPill]

Only time will tell what the aftermath of corona will be like.

I remember growing up in the 50's the government budgets in the millions raising concern, then the budgets grew into the billions and now the govenment is tossing around trillions! The outcome of this can't be good.

As far as the Covid virus is concerned, the media makes it sound like this is the only thing killing people!
It is certainly something to be concerned about and we need to follow the precautions for it. In the U.S., heart disease still kills close to 700K people a year, cancer close to 600K, influenza and pneumonia close to 60K a year, to name a few. This is a dangerous world we live in regardless of the coronavirus and with everything else that is going on, the last thing we need to do is panic about it.

I totally see what you’re saying, and can’t argue with that. The only difference is, those diseases kill at a relatively consistent rate every year that hospitals can handle when the patient becomes critical. The issue with this virus, is if we don’t adhere to social distancing, hospitals don’t have the supplies and resources to deal with all critical patients being admitted at once. Hospitals will be overloaded with critical patients due to COVID-19 and have to make decisions on who lives and who dies. The goal is to prevent this. So yes, other diseases have a higher mortality rate, but because this virus is so virulent and devastating in some patients, we need to flatten the curve so hospitals can handle the patients. The whole social distancing and flattening the curve is to allow hospitals to treat every COVID-19 patient effectively. My wife is a registered nurse and clinical coordinator for the Emergency Department at the hospital we work for and she has been reviewing parking lot satellite photos to see where we can set up tents for COVID-19 patients because we already know we won’t be able to handle all of them in the hospital. We are one of the biggest health networks in PA, and our Infectious Diseases physicians, pharmacists, and leaders are extremely concerned.

 

[Peglegjoe]

I agree wholeheartedly with pacing the outbreak, so to speak. You (medical personnel) can't handle the Black-Friday-At-Walmart rush of everyone getting sick at once.

My biggest issues are:

1. Why are we assuming this massive, it's-a-death-sentence-if-you-catch-it, mortality rate for a disease that's been running free on the planet since October?

2. Why are we closing down Western Civilization for it, when it hasn't lived up to a single projection model?

You make an excellent point about the bodies of the deceased, still being contagious. I wish the "media" would mention that, instead of simply pushing fear by saying "they're keeping bodies in trucks, look how horrible this is!!!".

 

[LicensedToPill]

I agree wholeheartedly with pacing the outbreak, so to speak. You (medical personnel) can't handle the Black-Friday-At-Walmart rush of everyone getting sick at once.

My biggest issues are:

1. Why are we assuming this massive, it's-a-death-sentence-if-you-catch-it, mortality rate for a disease that's been running free on the planet since October?

2. Why are we closing down Western Civilization for it, when it hasn't lived up to a single projection model?

You make an excellent point about the bodies of the deceased, still being contagious. I wish the "media" would mention that, instead of simply pushing fear by saying "they're keeping bodies in trucks, look how horrible this is!!!".

The media, whether leaning more left or right, is doing a descent job and presenting statistics, but they are providing a ton of misinformation and unanswered questions. I wouldn’t get too concerned over the mortality antics at this point. The real issue is that we don’t have a vaccine for this virus, it is more devastating in the “at risk” populations compared to the flu (vaccine issue again, and virulence issue), all people are at a higher risk of getting it (whether they show symptoms or not...vaccine issue again, and virulence compared to the flu), and it spreads more rapidly than the flu. The other main issue is that people don’t listen to the CDC. If we, as a nation, prepared better in anticipation for this, and people weren’t so selfish, and stayed away from the public to prevent the spread, the government wouldn’t have to force the western civilization to lockdown (causing economic disruption). And the other economic impact (specifically DOW) has a lot to do with the populations’ confidence in the economy. Because we weren’t prepared, we went into panic, which caused the stock market to crash.

 

[BET7]

I totally agree. Some people are not really afected at all, some have been devistated. As a nation, we need to treat this situation like we are all being affected in the same way. I understand how it’s tough to view this pandemic as an issue when it doesn’t affect that person, but we need to try and think how it could affect others both in a health and economic standpoint. People think that because I’m essential personal at the hospital, that I’m not affected economically...but I am. I’m salary, but my pay was cut by 20% indefinitely (not asking for a pity party, I’m doing fine), but healthcare workers are at the highest risk of getting COVID-19. I work at one of the most profitable non-profit health networks in PA, and we are projected to lose $50 million in just the month of March because of the pandemic. Rural hospitals, whom basically operate in the red 24/7, will not recover and will be shut down. And, for many people, these hospitals are the ones treating COVID-19 patients in their area.

If I could upvote your comments 1000 times, I would. You are spot on LicensedToPill.
In my opinion, life will pretty much be the same until either a vaccine is created or a cure is developed. The Federal/State/Local governments have stepped in to try to "flatten the curve" so that hospitals and health staffs aren't overwhelmed by this virus, like what occurred during the 1918 Spanish flu, or is currently occurring in places like Italy and elsewhere (where people are left to die in hallways, etc., as there's no place to put them). So far no rights have been infringed (sure there are those that are trying, but for the most part have failed after people have pushed back on their efforts). The founders wanted a strong central government to act on the peoples behalf for such things as defense. Well I think this event would definitely fall in that category, as we are under attack from this virus. In Pa. where I live, the Governor Issued a mandatory stay in place for my county. He closed non essential businesses which include gun store. People pushed back, the State Supreme court ruled that he should change this decision and he did (though not publicly announced through his office, I guess to save face with the anti 2A crowd). Even with this shutdown, there are plenty of people out and for the most part, normal as can be.
The talk about mortality statistics won't be known until this virus has subsided somewhat. What are the total counts of those tested positive, how many had it, but were never tested, How many died from it. After these counts are verified and calculated, will the mortality rate be determined. It could be lower or higher than is currently specified (1-2%).
Like the 1918 Flu, our country recovered. The same will happen eventually after this virus subsides. This isn't the last Pandemic, and I agree that the government acted slowly and we could have been a bit more prepared, seeing what was happening in Wuhan and the rest of China. Yes, China didn't and still isn't giving accurate data, but you could see the spread which was similar initially to the Sars and Mers viruses which so far, have a much higher mortality rate.
I think one good thing that may come out of this, is the run on guns and ammo. If just a small minority feel having a gun and carry is important, it could add to our masses of pro 2A advocates.
BTW: I read an interesting article that the 40 caliber could make a comeback as stores are being wiped out of 9mm and 5.56 guns and ammo, but leaving the 40's alone. I saw this first hand looking for two Berettas recently at LGS (APX Carry 9mm (that 10mm bought ), and a compact 92X 9mm).The Beretta section that usually held 10-15 models, had 3 left (2 PX4 Storms and a 92FS), that were probably 40 cals. I also read that 40 bulk ammo seems to be still available and at fairly reasonable prices concerning the ammo situation. I have several 40 cal firearms (in fact I already owned a PX4 Storm in 40), and have over 1000 rds of 40 cal ammo.
LincesnedToPill, I just want to say that you, your profession and everyone in essential life sustaining jobs, are Rock Stars . You're all on the front lines and stand to get this virus at greater odds. I for one salute you and the others doing this.