Lone Survivor--What would you have done?

[PieterCoetzee]

For those not familiar "Lone Survivor" refers to a SEAL mission in Afghanistan, where four SEALs were on a over watch mission to confirm the location of a high value target and if located call in troops to kill or capture the target.

The SEALs identified the target but radio and SAT phone comms were down. Before they could make contact with base, Three local goat hearders, stumbled upon them. One was grandfather age, One a military aged older teen and One a younger teen. The grandfather had a military type walkie talkie; but none had a fire arm. The three locals were taken prisoner and cuffed. The Rules of Engagement did not allow targeting civilians.

Ultimately the on scene commander, chose to abort the mission and release the locals, planning to climb to higher ground in hopes of establishing communication. As soon as they released the prisoners, the military aged teen RAN to the village where the Target and a large force were waiting. As the SEALs moved to higher ground they were met by a large enemy force. After hours of fighting all but one SEAL was killed. A rescue element attempted to reach them and their helicopter was shot down. The action resulted in the largest number of causalities in a single day.

THATS a very brief description of events and Im sure I left out numerous details. For the purpose of this question, it describes the events. I mean NO disrespect to the men who took part in the action but I thought perhaps enough time has passed that we may discuss and learn for the incident.

 

[PieterCoetzee]

First GWOT became a lawyers war and these ROEs Rules of Engagement are prime examples. Of course we dont intentionally target civilians but in a war when only "US" wore uniforms, who is to say, who is a civilian and who is a target? Conversely in a purely civilian contest, the guy who acts as a look out in a crime is still part of the crime. In THIS case locals non military didnt carry military radios; whether the grandfather was forced to carry the radio or he chose to, is irrelevant--he had it and he was at the very least a tool of the enemy

Second I would suggest that Taliban or not the three prisoners were a threat to both the SEALs and the mission. The target they had identified was responsible for the deaths of hundreds of US forces and in THIS mission the target over rode the ROEs and killing the three was the simple end to the problem That being said politicians would likely have seen it differently.

 

[PieterCoetzee]

A compromise of sorts, might have been for the prisoners to be "hobbled" as in a "3 legged race" by cuffing the three together to slow them down OR just simply tying them to a tree, which may have resulted in their deaths if they were not found.

Perhaps the best solution would have been to kill them immediately BEFORE they were taken prisoner?

In a time of WAR do we bring certain casualties upon ourselves to uphold rules written by those who never risked more than a paper cut? What has changed since WW2 when we bombed entire towns out of existence because a military factory was near by. We nuked two cities to convince the Japanese we would do it again if they didnt surrender. Then in Vietnam we charged soldiers for shooting into a village from where they took fire.

What would YOU have done? How many Americans are worth the sacrifice?

 

[powerboatr]

at that time, in that sandbox from hell
and all the crap that was going down
the three should have been silenced in a permanent way,
although it would weigh heavily on the conscience for most likely a long time
there really is no right or wrong answer... those guys knew when the crap was not going as planned and they were in the wrong place they needed to do what ever it took to LIVE

its a tough story and even tougher trying to resolve in the mind what may or may not been the best move.
didnt help having king bary tossing people in jail for carrying out the nations business

a company i worked for on a different subject, but is germane the the story.
dept of state asked our company to help with an election in a foreign land
at the time only a hand full of people knew about, i did not , i was a scientist
election didnt go as planned so dept of state filed charges against the very company they hired to fix the election..and we all got goat flucked over it in terms of loss of contracts and ineligibility for 10 years to get gov contracts, head shed people lost MONEY.

soo that time in our history....even if you had been by yourself... the death of 3 so called civilians might have bit you in the asss later
even with no witnesses

 

[Belt Fed]

I would have evacuated all Americans and called in a nuclear strike.

 

[bc22wm]

Hind sight is 20/20 so it is hard to make that call today. As I recall the leader asked for a vote. Sorry that's not how things work. You're in charge make the hard decisions. I would hope that "I will obey the orders of those appointed above me". Now having said that. I hate REM*s. Sitting in their nice comfy chairs, make rules that they have no idea how they affect the end of the stick and the take all the time in the world to pass judgment on decisions and actions that and to be made in split sec.s The rules of engagement where B.S. No we don't go out of our way to hurt the innocent however, " War is all cruelty. The crueler it is the quicker it will be over" William T. Sherman.

 

[PieterCoetzee]

It never used to be a problem when a war started under on president for the next president to continue the good fight.

As I recall the leader asked for a vote.

I dont think it was so much him asking for a vote as listening to what was being said THEN making a decision.

I wanna be clear this isnt about second guessing anyone, its about learning.

Im pretty sure this wouldnt have happened in WW2 (Saving Private Ryan, aside)

 

[PieterCoetzee]

the death of 3 so called civilians might have bit you in the asss later

Hmmm Im not so sure. The delay ads some question as in once they were prisoners.

I think certainly not if they had been shot immediately and still probably not once the radio was found

 

[3L120]

Lots of people in black pajamas I’m remembering one afternoon on Hill 37, scanning the Arizona Free Fire Zone, when I noticed a small village with black pajamas running everywhere. The ships binos picked up them running to a haystack and back to the huts. Then noticed a Marine patrol 100 meters out and approaching. Villagers were suddenly working with plows and the like. Soon as the patrol had passed, villagers went back to the haystack and retrieved a number of dark lengthy items, resembling AKs and RPGs and started following the patrol. Advantage to my team was that we an order fron Division that rounds out had to be within 5 minutes. We had already plotted the fire mission, called it in and dropped a ton of hate on the VC. The patrol leader called a cease fire and through the miracle of radio, advised him to return. He contacted me a few minutes later and thanked us. Seems the “peaceful” villagers were not so “peaceful” after all. Another dozen on the tally sheet.