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Marksmanship of Police Officers

KillerFord1977

KillerFord1977

SAINT
Founding Member
In a study of the Dallas Police Department of officer-involved shootings from 2003 to 2017, 54% of firearm discharge events resulted in a hit [8]. Furthermore, when considering total rounds fired, hit rate dropped to 35%, with 231 rounds missing the intended target [8]. These findings are supported by reporting on the Metropolitan Police Department in Las Vegas, which identified a hit rate accuracy ranging from 23% to 52% over the period of 2008–2015 [11,12]. Statistics from the New York Police Department show that the average hit rate was 30% in situations where gunfire was not returned and 18% for officers involved in a gunfight [13]. These statistics highlight the requirement to invest in improving officer marksmanship capability, especially under high-threat situations where the threat posed by the offender has led to a further decrease in officer marksmanship [8].

Factors Influencing Marksmanship in Police Officers: A Narrative Review - PMC

Law enforcement officers routinely face unpredictable scenarios that may threaten the public, their colleagues, or themselves. In such situations, officers may be required to use firearms, with shooting accuracy becoming crucial. This literature ...
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
 
Well, I got to say I'm not surprised. Most civilians don't know how little cops really train in firearms or use of force. I was in law enforcement for 30+ years, retired about 9 years ago. I was considered a good shot because of Army service, which did teach me to shoot. but in civilian law enforcement, unless on a tactical team, which I was, you only shoot once a year and it's a simple 40 round test on paper targets. Sure, good departments will throw in other weapons, shoot houses, sim training and stuff but in general once a year, 40 rounds on paper.

I always thought how terrible that was, same with hands on self-defense. Once you do it one time when your hired, they don't do it anymore. They don't want officer's getting hurt and low on manpower. All money and political. We spent more time in classroom training for probable cause, political correctness, and sexual harassment than anything else. Usually, a monthly class covering those things.

IMO ever cop should be trained to SWAT level and some kind of hand-to-hand combat training done weekly, even if just for 30 mins after a shift. A gun range with different scenarios should be done monthly.

But none of this will ever change. An officer just has to be honest with him/herself. "Am I ready and able to perform all the task of my job at a high level. If not what can I do outside of the department to fix it."

imo
 
I enjoyed a very short lived career in law enforcement many, many moons ago. This was before semiautomatic pistols were approved for duty use. The rule was the firearm had to be DA/SA. No DA semiautomatic pistols existed back then and carrying a cocked & locked .45 was not permitted by our department.

Our quarterly qualifications consisted of 36 rounds timed fire of .38 Special sissy loads. I swear you could see the bullet it was going so slow. 12 @ 3 yards, 12 @ 7 yards, and 12 @ 15 yards. I was shocked at how many officers couldn't qualify the first time. My rule always was to hit the deck and take cover if I ever saw a cop draw a weapon.

I'd imagine regulations had to have tightened up and improved by now. But back in the day, a fellow officer with gun in hand scared me worse than a gangbanger.
 
Another, let me speak from experience reply....

Most police officers shoot once a year, thier qualification day, they shoot the ammo they've carried since last year's qualification, once that's used up, they may shoot the course (point blank, to 25 yards here in NC) one or two times before the night shoot, and if you're a Deputy you'll be required to shoot the "stress" course.

Officers on specialized teams, like SRT (same as SWAT), shoot monthly.

Regular patrol officers either practice, or they don't. MOST, don't........

The exception is the officer that shoots on thier own, the rule is generally once a year....
 
Jester560 said:
I have shot matches with many active and ex military amd police. Even spec ops guys. Most can't shoot their way out of a wet paper bag. Had a State Trooper at one match bragging about how good he was. He shot that match and never came back. He finished dead last.
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Well, I too have seen some horrible marksmanship out of cops and military guys. Military guys have a higher percentage of knowing what they are doing than cops do IME and the 2 or 3 SF guys I have shot with on occasion don't miss.
 
Maybe we train more than most?
My agency shoots 3 times per year, minimum.
We do a yearly qual (have it at the end of this month), a night/dimlight shoot, and a tactical shoot.
Sure, some of our staff are not the greatest shots.
But our initial training is like 80 hours, and we fire several thousand rounds.
I'd wager we have more training than the average gun owner. Notice I said average gun owner, not gun guy. I am not talking about the die hard that shoots regularly, but I am talking about the average conceal carry guy/gal.
 
Faulkner said:
I'd be interested to see the same data as it applies to non-LEO shootings.
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The last study I saw that looked at non-LEO defensive shootings was under 3 rounds expended (2.something average).

Don’t recall a hit % with it, though…but, with the average that low, I would expect the hit ratio to be considerably higher.
 
All armed state employees have the same standards in my state. 40 hr. of initial training, requalification every six months, with 4 hr. block of training. In our dept. that consisted of safety of course, new law updates, and "other". Other might be as simple as shooting skeet with a riot gun, 350 yards with the AR, to driving, parking on the X exit the Veh. and engage targets that have been rearrange from the last shooter, so you don't know where the shoot vs no shoot targets are, or reloading while moving to cover, and engage the targets etc. the harder the better. The 4 Hr. block generally extended to 5-6, then an Hr. or so of smoking, catching up, war stories, and overall B.S.ing. Course of fire is from 3 yards to 50, prone, kneeling, and from both sides of cover. And, by law we weren't LEO's just prison guards. Then to be fair, and oh how I hate to be fair, not all guards were weapons qualified so the dept. had some fixability in the amount of training qualified officer got.
Simple fact of life. If you want better trained officers that means more/better training. Training $ are finite. Add more $. Cut a pile of "sensitivity" training (you can't do that because much of it is court ordered) Cut spending somewhere else or raise taxes. One could incentivize officers to receive training on their own HOWEVER then you stand the risk of them learning some heretical ideas that would put the dept. in legal jeopardy.
Damned if you do Damned if you don't
 
Interesting thing I forgot to add about that study I mentioned earlier, about numbers of rounds fired going up and % hits going down since the ‘80s in regards to LE shootings…

One of the the conclusions drawn was that the introduction of large capacity sidearms (greater than revolvers or single stack autos) was very much a cause; having 2-3x the rounds led to officers being more willing to take marginal shots that they likely wouldn’t if they only had 6-8 rounds in their weapon.
 
Mr.W. said:
No, the numbers aren't at all surprising, and should be unacceptable.
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That’s just it.
I know it’s city budgets and they are restrictive in the Police Dept, but as citizens who are being protected by the PD, we should demand better training of our officers.
better Training in how to handle John Q public on the street and better training employing weapons of force
 
KillerFord1977 said:
That’s just it.
I know it’s city budgets and they are restrictive in the Police Dept, but as citizens who are being protected by the PD, we should demand better training of our officers.
better Training in how to handle John Q public on the street and better training employing weapons of force
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please see the end of my post above. more $$$$
 
KillerFord1977 said:
That’s just it.
I know it’s city budgets and they are restrictive in the Police Dept, but as citizens who are being protected by the PD, we should demand better training of our officers.
better Training in how to handle John Q public on the street and better training employing weapons of force
Click to expand...
Myself, along with four additional regulars, would go to the range and punch paper (that's all we had) at least twice monthly on time-off. Still no where enough; I suppose we were trying, though.
I've no idea if qualifications have changed recently. I'd think those abysmal statistics would be enough to support it.
 
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