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More Less-Lethal Defensive Tools: Exploring Non-Lethal Weapons

Talyn

Talyn

SAINT
Founding Member
Like the other post, if you acknowledge that you would have a difficult time pulling the trigger, you have answered the question of whether or not you should carry a firearm for personal defense.

Fortunately for these individuals, less-lethal options are available.

www.personaldefensenetwork.com

Less-Lethal Defensive Tools

Non-lethal weapons: When self-defense situations do not warrant use of a firearm. For these people and situations, less-lethal options are available.
www.personaldefensenetwork.com www.personaldefensenetwork.com

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This is always a good reminder as most folks overlook less lethal bot as an alternative but a primary supplement to a firearm.

The facts are in any case where a use of force is there most people are in a 99-1 scenario where lethal force is not justified and the only reasonable force would be some type of OC or pepper spray.

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I'm still weighing less than lethal options, especially for church.

I really hate OC....like, hate it. I'd hate to cloud up the whole sanctuary over a disruptive person in attendance. But most of the generic handled tazers/stun guns aren't very effective.
 
PAGunGuy said:
I'm still weighing less than lethal options, especially for church.

I really hate OC....like, hate it. I'd hate to cloud up the whole sanctuary over a disruptive person in attendance. But most of the generic handled tazers/stun guns aren't very effective.
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Even the LE issued tazors only have a 30-40% effect

OC is a lot better I would suggest a streamer and get some professional training like Chuck Haggard with Agile training has a great class.

I have used IC on probably 100 combative inmates within the Federal Prison system in my career and have had very few be able to eat it.

I carry and recommend POM in my classes these days.

Good luck
 
Bassbob said:
Less than lethal and still effective ?

Anyone have nude pics of Hillary? That’d do it.

Edited to add:

This won’t work on bears. 😋
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Not to do word Judo but actually the many many years ago changed it to Less Lethal because a beanbag round (first Gen) was a flat square bag and went like a frisbee and a person was actually killed it slide I between a couple ribs (at least that was the ALS reps material on training. ALS is one of the largest producers and trainers of Less Lethal stuff)

So they dropped the word “than” (sure attorneys were involved) because that insinuating that it’s 100% never lethal.

But yes it also can not be effective but firearms are not always 100% effective either! (We could argue shot placement or caliber but you get it some folks have been shot with everything and lived even though they should not have)

As for the bears well that is the latests TikTok thing where liberal woman choose being with a bear over a Man in the woods. And for that here’s how it would go
 

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ECS686 said:
Even the LE issued tazors only have a 30-40% effect

OC is a lot better I would suggest a streamer and get some professional training like Chuck Haggard with Agile training has a great class.

I have used IC on probably 100 combative inmates within the Federal Prison system in my career and have had very few be able to eat it.

I carry and recommend POM in my classes these days.

Good luck
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I work in law enforcement and am familiar with OC spray and tazers. I haven't worked in the prison system, but talking to the many friends that I have that do, the stuff they use in PA will clear a whole room. Not what I want for a church sanctuary. It still might be the best option, but I wish it wasn't
 
PAGunGuy said:
I work in law enforcement and am familiar with OC spray and tazers. I haven't worked in the prison system, but talking to the many friends that I have that do, the stuff they use in PA will clear a whole room. Not what I want for a church sanctuary. It still might be the best option, but I wish it wasn't
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i get the concern. There is a lot of different types so do your research. BOP used the Top Cop. The MK 4 was a cone which was so so for a housing unit but the best is a streamer. The MK9 and MK 21 larger types was a straight streamer

It was pretty well on them while you could get residual exposure especially outside with wind (Cone spray was horrible on that) unless you have to go hands on (like in LE where you have to them apply cuffs) residual exposure is increased.

Funny thing up until 2012 nobody was authorized OC spray other her than LTs in calculated Ise of Force so in a high security housing unit you went from a harsh word to your hands if a maglight and we say some crazy fights and injuries. Lots of staff injuries.

When they have us OC at high security joints we it issued for 20 minutes and had our first use.

Our staff injuries were cut down by probably 90% (most were injured responding to incidents but a fair share during the fight)
And it shut down the incidents pretty quick.

The OC program was so successful in 2014 or so they expanded it to mediums and now everyone in all but minimum camps are issued OC within the Federal BOP.
 
IMO everyone should carry some OC and everyone should have some training that includes being exposed. One of the reasons I recommend being exposed is because any tweaker can walk into Walmart and buy OC spray. They can and do use it and you should have an idea of what it's like in case somebody sprays you.

When I worked for G4S they issued me a can of Sabre Red Gel. I wasn't impressed. For the training they sprayed us with the OC spray and then a guy in a Red Man suit was supposed to attack us and we were supposed to defend ourselves. Nobody in my class was incapacitated by the Saber Red and I was able to knock the Red Man down with a face full of it.

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I carry a can of UDAP everywhere I go.

It has been my experience at work that every time I ran into a tweaker or a homeless person I had to move them off property almost the very first words out of their mouth were to dare me to shoot them. Even when I wasn't carrying a gun but every time I pulled out my OC spray and started to shake it up they backed down.

It's like they don't believe you'll shoot them but they absolutely believe that you will spray them.
 
Having it is nice, but having the will to use it is better. When California first the carrying of tear gas (CN) in the early 80s, my wife and I taught a certification class. Most of the students were older, and they were terrified of being mugged. However, they were also terrified of spraying someone and going to jail. I tried my best to tell them that if you have to spray someone report it to the police. They were sure the bad guy was going to get to the station first and report they had been attacked by the sprayer.
 
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