My EDC, Pepper Spray 😲

[negolien]

I don’t know but getting a bit of blow back on me spraying expired Fox spray was terrible, I couldn’t imagine getting hit with that .

I used to carry fox before I went to red Sabre so I didn't light people on Fire if I pepper sprayed em then tased em. I dumped an entire large can of fox on a dope head he just sat there and stared at me lol. I turned around walked away and called pd

 

[1canvas]

I used to carry fox before I went to red Sabre so I didn't light people on Fire if I pepper sprayed em then tased em. I dumped an entire large can of fox on a dope head he just sat there and stared at me lol. I turned around walked away and called pd

I always though I would do that but later learned I can’t do that with pepper spray, it needs air to work and won’t start working until air hits it, that was a surprise to me. That’s the downside of pepper spay, there are some in the population that are not effected by it.

 

[WellArmed]

I always though I would do that but later learned I can’t do that with pepper spray, it needs air to work and won’t start working until air hits it, that was a surprise to me. That’s the downside of pepper spay, there are some in the population that are not effected by it.

I think it works the overwhelming majority of the time. I believe it still works on people who seem unaffected because it still causes some discomfort and gives them something else to think about and consider other than what they were doing. It's not like it has the same affect or feels like they were sprayed in the face with water.

I've seen people be shot multiple times with varying calibers, respectively, and be able to keep fighting, drive themselves to the hospital, or run away. I wouldn't say those facts equate to handguns not being a viable and effective option. The same is true for pepper spray. The difference is pepper spray is typically used for non life threatening situations, so the consequences aren't as dire vs a lethal force option failing.

 

[The Night Rider]

Never tied that. Decades ago when I was a wanna be cop aka security guard, I use to carry pepper spray because it was more accurate than my Gen 1 S&W M&P.

Interesting book. I heard about it in a prepping discussion the other day. I actually went and bought a copy off eBay it should be here by the end of the week

 

[Annihilator]

Personally, I’m not into any less lethal alternatives, if someone is going to do harm to me or my family, I’ll use a firearm every time

 

[Oldmountaiman]

Personally, I’m not into any less lethal alternatives, if someone is going to do harm to me or my family, I’ll use a firearm every time

As it should be

 

[The Night Rider]

Personally, I’m not into any less lethal alternatives, if someone is going to do harm to me or my family, I’ll use a firearm every time

There's a thing called disparity of force.

I frequently ran into people when I was working as a security guard who were a threat to me but they weren't a threat that I could justify shooting.

Pepper spray also works on dogs without having to shoot them. Without even having to wait for them to bite you.

I've said this multiple times before but I can't count the number of times I ran into some crackhead at work who DARED me to shoot them, some of them repeatedly.

But when I pulled out my OC spray and started shaking it up they all backed down.

God Forbid, that you should ever shoot somebody because if you do your kid's college funds are gone.

Andrew Branca mentions this frequently but there are a lot of people who shoot somebody and it's Justified but they literally have to spend their entire life savings and put a second mortgage on their house or remortgage their house they've already paid off to pay for the legal fees.

This is probably self-evident because if I had I would have spoken about it previously but I have not yet run into a situation in which a firearm was required to solve it .

ETA this is something that Massad Ayoob has posted frequently on internet forums. Based on his experiences as an expert witness and being involved and I don't know how many trials.

If you ever shoot somebody and it's the least bit questionable, your online presence will be subpoenaed and they will go over all your postings with a fine tooth comb.

I don't remember his name I want to say Daniel Perry but that's probably not right but he got convicted because he posted on Facebook that he couldn't wait for one of those protesters to try to stop his car or words to that effect.

If (God Forbid) I'm ever involved in a shooting. Number one it's going to bankrupt me. But (God Forbid) if it ever happens I want them to be able to pull up my entire online presence and read post after post after post after post where I'm saying I'm going to do everything I possibly can to get out of that situation without having to use a gun.

 

[bulldog4436]

One thing I do every four years is spend 150-200.00 on pepper spray from the small key chain size to the large canister size for home and sometimes cars when protesters ma be a foot.
I believe in a less than lethal option available, especially when carrying a firearm. I think many confrontations can be managed with a high quality pepper spray. Now at 70 years old with osteoarthritis in my hands, pepper spray is a great option when a firearm is not justified. I usually buy a few extra small pepper sprays for give a ways to family and friends

Got to have a less than lethal option. If all you have is a hammer (gun) every problem looks like a nail. I sprayed several people with pepper spray as a Deputy Sheriff and Detective. It always worked for me.

 

[powerboatr]

pepper spray mixed with deer or skunk urine
you may wash your eyes... but that smell will leave a mark for days

we accidentally washed down a few selectees once with skunk and deer urine ...it made the whole place have watery eyes

 

[1canvas]

Got to have a less than lethal option. If all you have is a hammer (gun) every problem looks like a nail. I sprayed several people with pepper spray as a Deputy Sheriff and Detective. It always worked for me.

I also keep a slap jack option as an in between pepper spray and gun, because as posted, sometimes the spray doesn’t work on some or due to windy conditions not practical. I will do anything to keep from having to shoot someone.

 

[Belt Fed]

slap jack

Damn those things hurt.

 

[1canvas]

Damn those things hurt.

And it doesn’t matter which way the wind blows .

 

[bulldog4436]

And it doesn’t matter which way the wind blows .

The SAP and the Kel Light flashlight were the go tos in policework in the 70s and 80s. Saved me from a broken hand.

 

[1canvas]

The SAP and the Kel Light flashlight were the go tos in policework in the 70s and 80s. Saved me from a broken hand.

After watching YouTube videos of arrests, cops would do well to bring them back, but that wouldn’t be politically correct . My dad and oldest brother were cops from the 60s - 90s.

 

[Oldmountaiman]

The SAP and the Kel Light flashlight were the go tos in policework in the 70s and 80s. Saved me from a broken hand.

SAP gloves in the 50s and 60s with a 5 cell flashlight

 

[13Bravo]

I have sprayed dozens of inmates inside Federal Penitentiaries and witnessed hundreds of issues (we averages 400 use of force incidents a year) I have only seen a couple jnmates be able to eat it.

Prior to 2012 OC was not allowed to be carried by line staff yjen in 2012 whem we were we had a 90 plus % drop in staff injuries due to it shut the fights down.

We used Sabre products however now retired I teach and am affiliated with Pom pepper spray and recommend it however Sabre is great stuff as well. Did I am not familiar with .

All that said the OC today is not the same OC as in the 90’s (like handgun defensive ammo) it is night and day difference and performs better.

Tasers are a much worse product but that is another topic!

I like the POM as well. The size is perfect for EDC. If anyone says they cannot carry POM then they must be walking around naked. I broke up a fight in a Hardee’s parking lot using it. They immediately stopped!

 

[PieterCoetzee]

Pepper spray can be a distraction but it is NOT a self defense.

It does fail, especially on people who have been sprayed by it before. It can fail if they are wearing glasses. If you use the stream style you can miss. If you use the foam style they can wipe it off and throw it back. If you use the fog the wind can blow it back at you.

Most importantly in many/most places using pepper spray is the same category as using a firearm. Its an assault. You are either justified or not. Using less lethal doesnt make you a good guy, just a guy who was faced with a threat who didnt eliminate it and left it to attack someone else

If you truly must have a less lethal tool then get a TASER (a real Taser not a stun gun) BUT again Im left with why less lethal?

 

[ECS686]

Pepper spray can be a distraction but it is NOT a self defense.

It does fail, especially on people who have been sprayed by it before. It can fail if they are wearing glasses. If you use the stream style you can miss. If you use the foam style they can wipe it off and throw it back. If you use the fog the wind can blow it back at you.

Most importantly in many/most places using pepper spray is the same category as using a firearm. Its an assault. You are either justified or not. Using less lethal doesnt make you a good guy, just a guy who was faced with a threat who didnt eliminate it and left it to attack someone else

If you truly must have a less lethal tool then get a TASER (a real Taser not a stun gun) BUT again Im left with why less lethal?

Respectfully your statements are 30 some years outdated or you have never worked any use of force stuff in the last 25 years if ever.


Tasers are only effective 50% of the time, convicted peeps know how to break the wire by rolling. And is only good for one suspect. OC you can use for multiple persons at once

The OC of today is much more effective than it was 30 years ago. And the tales of foam being thrown back was exaggerated as much as the Beretta M9 slides separating.

While the early stuff from the 70’s to 90’s had issues with drunk or drugged suspects the last 20 years the quality stuff like POM or Saber is in the 90% plus effective range. As far as tolerating it inside he Federal Prison system out of several dozens I have sprayed myself and the hundreds of other incidents I supervised the decontamination I have only known 2 people that took a while can of it with minimal effects

As far as OC use being an Assualt it’s a misdemeanor Assualt at best if your wrong you go home 500 dollar bill and your not in prison. The other is thwre ks no briars or broke bones, teeth eye sockets or anything like a physical fight (generally and the suspect falling as a reaction isn’t on you as the first aggressor ) That’s a far and away different issue than shooting aomeone as it’s investigated as a homicide or attempted homicide and someone else gets to decide if you met subsection A, b or c to make it justified.

While George Zimmerman was silly for putting himself in his position had he used a can of POM nobody would know who he or the dead kid was, he wouldn’t be 400K in debt, lost his house, habe his wife leave him or be completely unemployable due to negative national reconciliation.

Chuck Haggard who i train with and is a friend had an excellent Less Lethal Insteuctor course open to anyone. Besides my agency stuff I took his class and am certified with Agile Training and teach Les’s lethal to private citizens

Here’s a great link to listen to him about OC



Here’s his next class if your interested

OC Instructor — Agile Training and Consulting

Instructor level course on OC spray and other less lethal options. OC Instructor class description. This is an instructor level course primarily geared towards covering the subject of less than lethal options for everyday people, CCW carriers, or even on duty/off duty cops.

site.corsizio.com

 

[Shibadog]

I went to another Forum where there's a bunch of lawyers and I asked them and they found it.

This is what they came up with.

7 U.S. Code § 136j - Unlawful acts

www.law.cornell.edu

7 U.S. Code § 136j - Unlawful acts

(2)It shall be unlawful for any person—

(G) to use any registered pesticide in a manner inconsistent with its labeling;


7 U.S. Code § 136 - Definitions

(ee)To use any registered pesticide in a manner inconsistent with its labeling

The term “to use any registered pesticide in a manner inconsistent with its labeling” means to use any registered pesticide in a manner not permitted by the labeling, except that the term shall not include (1) applying a pesticide at any dosage, concentration, or frequency less than that specified on the labeling unless the labeling specifically prohibits deviation from the specified dosage, concentration, or frequency, (2) applying a pesticide against any target pest not specified on the labeling if the application is to the crop, animal, or site specified on the labeling, unless the Administrator has required that the labeling specifically state that the pesticide may be used only for the pests specified on the labeling after the Administrator has determined that the use of the pesticide against other pests would cause an unreasonable adverse effect on the environment, (3) employing any method of application not prohibited by the labeling unless the labeling specifically states that the product may be applied only by the methods specified on the labeling, (4) mixing a pesticide or pesticides with a fertilizer when such mixture is not prohibited by the labeling, (5) any use of a pesticide in conformance with section 136c, 136p, or 136v of this title, or (6) any use of a pesticide in a manner that the Administrator determines to be consistent with the purposes of this subchapter. After March 31, 1979, the term shall not include the use of a pesticide for agricultural or forestry purposes at a dilution less than label dosage unless before or after that date the Administrator issues a regulation or advisory opinion consistent with the study provided for in section 27(b) of the Federal Pesticide Act of 1978, which regulation or advisory opinion specifically requires the use of definite amounts of dilution.

I guess it would be employing it against a target PEST not specified on the label”.

 

[PieterCoetzee]

Respectfully your statements are 30 some years outdated

NO only 7 years since I retired. I saw Pepper Spray work and fail when I needed it most. I dumped a can on a 60 year old man who took off his glasses and was still able to cut me with a knife I hadnt seen (otherwise I would have gone straight to guns)

Tasers are only effective 50% of the time, convicted peeps know how to break the wire by rolling. And is only good for one suspect. OC you can use for multiple persons at once

Ive seen used a Taser used less but it NEVER failed and I never saw anyone roll while the pulse was running. As for multiple suspects yes OC can work but then I cant imagine using pepper when I was out numbered, thats clearly a case for LETHAL force

As far as OC use being an Assualt it’s a misdemeanor Assualt at best

Well yes and no; Maryland calls it a misdemeanor but the penalty is up to 10 years (making it a defacto felony). Its not a $500 fine and go home

That’s a far and away different issue than shooting aomeone as it’s investigated as a homicide or attempted homicide

ONLY if you get listed as a Suspect. This is were "I want a lawyer" makes you look like a criminal and gets you placed in the Suspect block instead of being identified as the VICTIM. Ultimately you are one or the other. IF you can articulate the events explaining that you were Victim, then you ARE the Victim. Using Lethal force wont change that, in fact having access to both a gun and OC will bring questions into the event, as in why didnt you use the OC? As a civilian you have zero obligation to use less lethal. You are either an innocent Victim or not

George Zimmerman

The Zimmerman case was a product of the leftist media. In any other case he would have been described as black or latino BUT since the little angle was black the media couldnt run with a black on black crime and amazingly they felt the need to show a much younger picture of Travon making him look even more innocent and angelic. Zimmerman told his story to 911, but the media edited the 911 tape making Zimmerman look like a racist

If Zimmerman had used OC, chances are he would have still been sued by Travon's parents who moved quickly to seek $$$ from the his death.

Ultimately Zimmerman was right in what he did; but he failed to make his events the priority for the responding officers.

AND as for the original poster of this thread, I seem to recall he was in his 70s with arthritis; THAT alone is good reason to go immediately to guns. He sounds like hes in no condition spray and run and if he gets a whiff of the spray then hes in even worse shape.

Im not opposed to OC as a distraction. For that he might want to consider the OC "grenades" that look like a regular can of OC but once the button is depressed they dump the whole can. So press and draw the gun; if the OC works great if not send the threats a few rounds of whatever caliber he can handle; but for me Id leave the OC at home

I just dont see any reason for civilians to ever need less lethal in a lethal force incident,