testtest

One Too Many: Shot Count in Self Defense Shooting

I remember getting blindsided by a question asked of me in court by the prosecutor. It was a jury trial of a man that had killed a young deputy sheriff who was on his doorstep trying to serve a misdemeanor arrest warrant. The defendant then took the deputy's firearm and his own shotgun and left the scene in the deputy's squad car. He then drove to a neighbor's house and shotgunned the adults in front of their 10-year-old daughter. He then left, looking for other people that he believed had wronged him during his lifetime. I was one of those people. I was off duty, down with a migraine. The small rural county where I worked normally had one county deputy on duty and whatever officers that may be working in the 3 small towns in the county. Normally one shift/one officer per day. These officers are a mix of full time and part-time officers. I was the Chief of my department, and I got the call to respond. The dispatcher had lost it, giving bad information and was incapable of handling the overwhelming number of calls and information she was receiving. Myself and two part-time officers from neighboring towns boxed in the suspect. I mean he rammed one squad car and I came from behind and put my bumper against the rear of his vehicle. He was stopped and pinned down. That's when the gunfight started. I heard a shotgun blast as soon as I bailed out of my car. It was followed by a mix of handgun shots. I maneuvered around my squad car, putting sheet metal and an engine block between me and the suspect. I was getting blasted by broken glass from the rear window of the stolen squad car and my own windshield. I took cover and had experienced bullets passing close to my ear. I really couldn't see the suspect very well. It was night and the only lights were from my squad car. And I had them ALL on. I could occasionally see the top of the suspect's head oner the top of the driver's seat and I began to plan a shot through the seat but wondered how much metal was involved in the headrest and seat and whether my .45acp would punch through it accurately. I fired ONE shot and then there was silence. I figured the suspect was either wounded, dead, or out of ammo. I also considered that he could be playing possum and was waiting to ambush the first person to walk up to the car. I started seeing some movement of his head and realized he was still alive and probably wounded. I yelled at the other officers to hold their ground and hopefully he would bleed out. After a few minutes, the sheriff came flying up to the scene and pulled a shotgun from his personal truck. I gave him a 5 second briefing and he ran up and put the barrel of the shotgun against the neck of the suspect and began pulling weapons out of the car and putting them on the roof. After that, he yanked the suspect out of the stolen squad car and dumped him on the ground. I quickly handcuffed and searched the suspect. The night was just beginning. There were multiple crime scenes to deal with and three murders. The state police stepped up and took over the investigations.

There never was any doubt he murdered three people. He attorney didn't even try to prove otherwise. The only issue at the trial was his sanity and the hard and crappy road of life that he had travelled in his 60 years of life. Prosecutors often talk about "the smoking gun". No doubt that someone committed the crime. In this case we had the smoking gun and a stolen squad car. The question that I was asked in court, by the prosecutor, was why I only fired one shot. Even being blindsided by this question, I said, "That's what my training has taught me to do. Meet force with comparable force until there's no threat". No hesitation with my reply, only training that kicked in when it was needed.

This asshole had been shot under his left eye and the bullet travelled through his mouth and then lodged behind his right ear. He lost the sight of the eye, some teeth, and a large part of his hearing. He was convicted of 33 counts. including first degree murder and given the death sentence. Our governor had put a moratorium on carrying out executions. It had just expired and he was the first person back on death row in Illinois. He stayed in isolation for a few years until his wife died of cancer. At this time he hanged himself. This upset me since, while exiting the courtroom after receiving his sentence, he walked past me and said, "F*** you". I replied, "I'll see you at your execution".
Curt Thompson.jpg
 
Thank you for the respectful discussion.

Yeah I am well aware I watched the video as it’s several years old and he seems to like running to a camera woth his “bravado” every chance he had. (I’m not saying the Sheriff is a bad guy it’s the I’ll call it boasting is not something I find favorable)

I am more of the mindset of the quiet professional. I get some people just need to be shot. But in this Sheriffs case (and many like him) think it’s a theatrical move and cheesy. You know how a flag gets thrown for doing certain things after a touchdown!

That said I have given links that an extra shot or two (that someone else gets to decide and not only your agency that backs you and clears you, even mine cleared me and I still got mirandized for a possible civil rights violation and it was just a less lethal use)

And the way the Feds work now in the case of a complaint they almost always come in and start to look (at least whem other Federal agencies are involved and that was my case)

But everyone can do whatever they “feel” they just should be sure their career and bank account can handle it.

Carrying a firearm wether professional under an agency banner or especially as a private citizen is a huge lifestyle change a lot of folks find oyt too late!
True to all and he appears what the voters want and that was part of the point. With knowing the mantra of the Dept. is to back their deputies, freeing the thought of unwarranted backlash. I don't really see much in the Cowboy antics as I have seen at a Federal Level and will not name the worse. But appears the new Director, from within their ranks is well aware and in the midst of correcting and improving the image...

Yep, Civil Rights Investigations have an interesting impact, knowing the investigators never face the same scrutiny that gets placed on state and local law enforcement. However, having spent several months at dedicated federal training facilities, there can be a real mix of political agendas at play within just one agency at times.

That said, a firm grip or shall I say understanding is that the same support can be turned a nightmare, if one decides to go rogue outside acceptable behavior and not a free pass to be bad***. I still shake my head at some of the excuses I have heard for bad behavior with a citizen. More often than not it is the citizen that created the issue, but now the lines are getting blurrier with the more and more bout less and less based on 'perception" not reality.

Focus on the goal is to enforce the law gets lost fast when the facts get twisted, by an eager Media to create a story...
 
FRT’s are legal in Texas
What if I’m attacked by an armed assailant while holding an MP5 and pulled the trigger in forced reset mode 🤔🧐
Wait, it is still one shot per pull, there friend... But if the subject makes me nervous and my trigger finger twitches while in the trigger-guard, well bring that up with my psychologist, as I was scared...
I can't have one or it is still gray in my state, lucky bugger.
 
I remember getting blindsided by a question asked of me in court by the prosecutor. It was a jury trial of a man that had killed a young deputy sheriff who was on his doorstep trying to serve a misdemeanor arrest warrant. The defendant then took the deputy's firearm and his own shotgun and left the scene in the deputy's squad car. He then drove to a neighbor's house and shotgunned the adults in front of their 10-year-old daughter. He then left, looking for other people that he believed had wronged him during his lifetime. I was one of those people. I was off duty, down with a migraine. The small rural county where I worked normally had one county deputy on duty and whatever officers that may be working in the 3 small towns in the county. Normally one shift/one officer per day. These officers are a mix of full time and part-time officers. I was the Chief of my department, and I got the call to respond. The dispatcher had lost it, giving bad information and was incapable of handling the overwhelming number of calls and information she was receiving. Myself and two part-time officers from neighboring towns boxed in the suspect. I mean he rammed one squad car and I came from behind and put my bumper against the rear of his vehicle. He was stopped and pinned down. That's when the gunfight started. I heard a shotgun blast as soon as I bailed out of my car. It was followed by a mix of handgun shots. I maneuvered around my squad car, putting sheet metal and an engine block between me and the suspect. I was getting blasted by broken glass from the rear window of the stolen squad car and my own windshield. I took cover and had experienced bullets passing close to my ear. I really couldn't see the suspect very well. It was night and the only lights were from my squad car. And I had them ALL on. I could occasionally see the top of the suspect's head oner the top of the driver's seat and I began to plan a shot through the seat but wondered how much metal was involved in the headrest and seat and whether my .45acp would punch through it accurately. I fired ONE shot and then there was silence. I figured the suspect was either wounded, dead, or out of ammo. I also considered that he could be playing possum and was waiting to ambush the first person to walk up to the car. I started seeing some movement of his head and realized he was still alive and probably wounded. I yelled at the other officers to hold their ground and hopefully he would bleed out. After a few minutes, the sheriff came flying up to the scene and pulled a shotgun from his personal truck. I gave him a 5 second briefing and he ran up and put the barrel of the shotgun against the neck of the suspect and began pulling weapons out of the car and putting them on the roof. After that, he yanked the suspect out of the stolen squad car and dumped him on the ground. I quickly handcuffed and searched the suspect. The night was just beginning. There were multiple crime scenes to deal with and three murders. The state police stepped up and took over the investigations.

There never was any doubt he murdered three people. He attorney didn't even try to prove otherwise. The only issue at the trial was his sanity and the hard and crappy road of life that he had travelled in his 60 years of life. Prosecutors often talk about "the smoking gun". No doubt that someone committed the crime. In this case we had the smoking gun and a stolen squad car. The question that I was asked in court, by the prosecutor, was why I only fired one shot. Even being blindsided by this question, I said, "That's what my training has taught me to do. Meet force with comparable force until there's no threat". No hesitation with my reply, only training that kicked in when it was needed.

This asshole had been shot under his left eye and the bullet travelled through his mouth and then lodged behind his right ear. He lost the sight of the eye, some teeth, and a large part of his hearing. He was convicted of 33 counts. including first degree murder and given the death sentence. Our governor had put a moratorium on carrying out executions. It had just expired and he was the first person back on death row in Illinois. He stayed in isolation for a few years until his wife died of cancer. At this time he hanged himself. This upset me since, while exiting the courtroom after receiving his sentence, he walked past me and said, "F*** you". I replied, "I'll see you at your execution".View attachment 120791
Now that is not a memory in the normal sense, with kudos and respect for your actions. Sorry for the losses of the battle, in the end the World was a safer place from your actions. I stated earlier of the officer alone in the room questioning their actions. You know what the answer is and that is you did the right thing, this time. As doubt has no place in next time... Great Job Brother, you made a difference and that is all we can ask for.

As for the F*** you from the prep, there is a satisfaction that he can place a face with his demise...
 
Now that is not a memory in the normal sense, with kudos and respect for your actions. Sorry for the losses of the battle, in the end the World was a safer place from your actions. I stated earlier of the officer alone in the room questioning their actions. You know what the answer is and that is you did the right thing, this time. As doubt has no place in next time... Great Job Brother, you made a difference and that is all we can ask for.

As for the F*** you from the prep, there is a satisfaction that he can place a face with his demise...
The guy used to bully everyone in town and he had very few friends. Anybody close to him was expected to act like him, including his wife and kids. His wife was crazier that he was and I preferred to deal with him any day of the week. But, she would often show up for work with sunglasses hiding swollen and blackened eyes of her arm in a sling because he beat her. (she was a school bus driver!). The kids got away from him as soon as they could graduate high school and never looked back. Of the three kids, two never came back for the parents funeral. I used to torment him as much as possible. If I patrolled the street in front of his house, he would come running out to the street, often with a 2x4 in his hands. Or, he would follow me around while I was driving. Sometimes he would swerve into my lane of traffic if I met him driving on the street. If we happened to pass and had our windows, I'd smile and say, "Have a good day, My Thompson". The last time he swerved at me, he was driving a garden tractor pulling several wagons full of firewood. I held my lane and floored my Crown Vic. He chickened. And never swerved at me again.
 
Being "Criminally Charged" after a shooting incident depends a lot upon the recommendations of the Investigating Detectives. Being a non-cooperative prick will not make you any friends. And, could put unwanted focus on your behavior. Being cooperative, and promptly responding fully to inquiries will establish that your behavior was appropriate for the circumstances. Lawyering Up is usually best for Lawyers.
Nope. Sometimes it's pure politics.

My buddy was just cleared for murder 1 and a few other, lesser charges, in a self defense situation. He was on duty and had to use his weapon to defend himself. The shooter and the victim were of different races.
My buddy was completely cooperative. The investigation cleared him.
But there was a huge community uproar and he was arrested and charged for first degree murder. He spend 10 months in jail and the trial was a complete circus. The jury cleared him of all charges in like 10 hours. Would have been quicker but the DA threw in all the lesser charges literally at closing so they had to look at each of those
 
  • Like
Reactions: CEW
Nope. Sometimes it's pure politics.

My buddy was just cleared for murder 1 and a few other, lesser charges, in a self defense situation. He was on duty and had to use his weapon to defend himself. The shooter and the victim were of different races.
My buddy was completely cooperative. The investigation cleared him.
But there was a huge community uproar and he was arrested and charged for first degree murder. He spend 10 months in jail and the trial was a complete circus. The jury cleared him of all charges in like 10 hours. Would have been quicker but the DA threw in all the lesser charges literally at closing so they had to look at each of those
Therein lies the issue of the DA and who paid for the campaign, as the progressives have learned to start at lower levels to get their agenda done. If the "victim" had won the fight, it most likely would have been crickets. As for the details, of course I don't know.

But lesser included is a good tactic and sometimes I wish they would and sometimes not. It is a two-edged sword and like the Clancy trial and would have been helpful as to how wrong a Jury can go...

Seen a case once where the suspects kidnaped, tied up and tortured killing the victim. Was an airtight except for the exact time of death. Jury convicted on the kidnapping. But returned a manslaughter instead of murder. Later found out through the grapevine, one of the Jurors used to work for a coroner and decided and convinced the jury, we had the wrong time if death. Irrelevant in the "felony style" killing and how long before the victim succumbed to the injuries shouldn't have played in. Have no idea what would happen with no lessors... Oh the time of death was correct.
 
Back
Top