Optic’s viewpoint
- Thread starter Jsimon78
- Start date
Blackmesa96
Custom
In my case it took a bit of practice to warm up to them fully. I found it took a more deliberate effort at first to understand how to look through it and focus on the target. (Others have explained the difference in sight picture better than I can.)
I'm fortunate that the optics I have will co-witness with my irons, for the most part. That helped me transition over. I admit that I have been won over by their ease of use.
I'm fortunate that the optics I have will co-witness with my irons, for the most part. That helped me transition over. I admit that I have been won over by their ease of use.
Jsimon78
Professional
I’m having issues trying to get everything lined up. I guess it’s trying to go from irons to a dot
Jester560
Professional
Practice, practice and more practice
Jsimon78
Professional
it will come but frustrating
Co witness helps. It did with my M&P.
PieterCoetzee
Master Class
I cant imagine a Combat/PD gun without one. I retired before PDs started issuing them; but I had them on my (unofficial) off duty guns and now on my elevated threat condition guns. I only use Trijicon of Holosun optics as they are the only ones Im willing to risk my life using. I typically run larger dots in the 5 MOA range. I actually like the Trijicon 12.9 MOA triangle / 13 MOA circle reticles. They are GREAT for what I would call "typical" gun fight range, although lacking for eyeball precision shots. I do run a 2MOA dot on a Glock 35 (357 SIG). I can get new shooter to make 200m body shots with ease on that set up.
Foe ME, I require co-witnessing iron sights. I find the combination of the Red Dot with the "suppressor height" sights to be natural for ME and MUCH faster that either irons or dot alone. Also having the co-witness sights made the transition to the Red Dot almost instant. After using the co-witness set up a buddy handed me his pistol with a Red Dot alone, and I found it slow to find the dot as I had no reference point. I know others may disagree but the combo works for me.
The advent of the Micro Dots are making me consider one on my smaller guns like the P365 and Glock 43X.
Foe ME, I require co-witnessing iron sights. I find the combination of the Red Dot with the "suppressor height" sights to be natural for ME and MUCH faster that either irons or dot alone. Also having the co-witness sights made the transition to the Red Dot almost instant. After using the co-witness set up a buddy handed me his pistol with a Red Dot alone, and I found it slow to find the dot as I had no reference point. I know others may disagree but the combo works for me.
The advent of the Micro Dots are making me consider one on my smaller guns like the P365 and Glock 43X.
SimonRL
Ronin
You don’t have to get anything lined up, that’s the point. Put the dot on the target, pull the trigger. Job done.
Jedi54
Elite
the struggle comes from where your eyes are used to going to where the now should be.
let me elaborate.
for those of us who shot irons our whole lives, we were trained to have a hard focus on the front sight.
why?
because we had to focus there so we could then line up the front sight to the rear sight, properly align it, make sure the top of the front sight was even with the rears, it was centered in the rear notch (equal light on both sides) and then we could send the shot.
with irons, it's well, for a lack of a better word, the opposite.
the sighting system is simplified, there is no more having to 'align' anything but our eyes are trained to look at the thing closest to us.
You are now having to make that change in your eyes focal point and when starting off it is and can be a challenging venture.
Look at your target. Look at a very specific spot on your target and trust your index.
if you stay locked in on the target, trust that your dot will come to the right place.
Our eyes work like a camera, they struggle to focus on two things at once.
You should now be laser focused on the target and simply be aware of where the dot is.
let me elaborate.
for those of us who shot irons our whole lives, we were trained to have a hard focus on the front sight.
why?
because we had to focus there so we could then line up the front sight to the rear sight, properly align it, make sure the top of the front sight was even with the rears, it was centered in the rear notch (equal light on both sides) and then we could send the shot.
with irons, it's well, for a lack of a better word, the opposite.
the sighting system is simplified, there is no more having to 'align' anything but our eyes are trained to look at the thing closest to us.
You are now having to make that change in your eyes focal point and when starting off it is and can be a challenging venture.
Look at your target. Look at a very specific spot on your target and trust your index.
if you stay locked in on the target, trust that your dot will come to the right place.
Our eyes work like a camera, they struggle to focus on two things at once.
You should now be laser focused on the target and simply be aware of where the dot is.
Jedi54
Elite
think of it this way.
Lets say you're driving a car with a hood emblem.
If you were to drive around focused on the road vs driving around focused on the hood emblem. One of those lets you drive around all day perfectly fine, one does not end well.
right now your eyes are trying to look at the emblem because they're used to seeing the thing closest to you.
when really you need to focus on the road and simply be aware of where the front of your vehicle is so you don't hit anyone.
watch where you want to go
the dot will arrive there.
Lets say you're driving a car with a hood emblem.
If you were to drive around focused on the road vs driving around focused on the hood emblem. One of those lets you drive around all day perfectly fine, one does not end well.
right now your eyes are trying to look at the emblem because they're used to seeing the thing closest to you.
when really you need to focus on the road and simply be aware of where the front of your vehicle is so you don't hit anyone.
watch where you want to go
the dot will arrive there.
SimonRL
Ronin
C
The whole point of having a red dot is because it is faster and more efficient. There’s no aligning two sets of sights up, adjusting focus - just putting your dot on target. The target is your single point of focus. If your dot craps out for whatever reason, which is extremely unlikely - even if it is broken, you now have your iron sights to fall back on. I have trained with my red dot occluded with mud on the inside, rain on it splintering the dot like a kaleidoscope, tape over the outside and just plain turned off and still hit A zone at 15+ yds. All of my red dots have a silver sharpie mark at the 12 o’clock point on the frame and I know that if that silver mark is on target so is my shot. In fact, at 10 yds and closer if you just have the window on the A zone you are, in all likelihood, going to hit in the A zone. Everybody has to decide what works best for them, but too often people overthink how to shoot with a red dot.
I mentioned in another thread that I think cowitnessing is massively overrated. Cowitness is fine for those who are concerned with their dot going down, but too often people slave their red dots to their irons and want to have all of them in view and aligned before they shoot. This is not only inefficient, but in the wrong situation is going to put you on the losing end of the fight.
The whole point of having a red dot is because it is faster and more efficient. There’s no aligning two sets of sights up, adjusting focus - just putting your dot on target. The target is your single point of focus. If your dot craps out for whatever reason, which is extremely unlikely - even if it is broken, you now have your iron sights to fall back on. I have trained with my red dot occluded with mud on the inside, rain on it splintering the dot like a kaleidoscope, tape over the outside and just plain turned off and still hit A zone at 15+ yds. All of my red dots have a silver sharpie mark at the 12 o’clock point on the frame and I know that if that silver mark is on target so is my shot. In fact, at 10 yds and closer if you just have the window on the A zone you are, in all likelihood, going to hit in the A zone. Everybody has to decide what works best for them, but too often people overthink how to shoot with a red dot.
Belt Fed
SAINT
Absolutely this.
Jsimon78
Professional
Optics do fail and optics do come flying off. How do I know, it has happened to me. I had a vortex optic that died and a Holosun that came flying off to hit my head. Batteries only last so long before they die. Anyone that says co witness is stupidly dumb hasn’t had what I went through. As for my CCL firearms, they are all irons.
KillerFord1977
Emissary
You dont need to co witness.
If dot fails, you have a blank glass plane. Look thru and use irons, though its not a perfectly clear plane of glass like a home window.
To @SimonRL point. You dont need a dot to hit close in A zone.
I’ve run the dot failure drills using just the frame of the red dot sight and put all in A zone at 7 & 10 yards.
Jsimon78
Professional
You never meet my M&P M2.0 in 10MM.
If you want lessons on issues then I’ll let you borrow it sometime.
SimonRL
Ronin
Haha. Thanks, but it’s not like I’m issue free. I’ve got @KillerFord1977.You never meet my M&P M2.0 in 10MM.
Jedi54
Elite
yes, technically all things man-made can fail.
I've had gun fail on the range and have seen plenty of students have issues over the years but you play the odds.
get quality gear
maintain it
replace batteries at set intervals
and you play the odds.
for me, every single carry gun now has an optic on it. why? because in the moment with the stress and adrenaline, you will tunnel vision and the odds of you seeing a front sight, let alone properly aligning it, are slim to none and slim just left.
I've had gun fail on the range and have seen plenty of students have issues over the years but you play the odds.
get quality gear
maintain it
replace batteries at set intervals
and you play the odds.
for me, every single carry gun now has an optic on it. why? because in the moment with the stress and adrenaline, you will tunnel vision and the odds of you seeing a front sight, let alone properly aligning it, are slim to none and slim just left.