Retired Bum
Elite
Some are even made in the USA!
Philadelphia Becomes the Latest City to Sue Glock
- Thread starter Annihilator
- Start date
bc22wm
Professional
I think you missed my point. NO ONE do business with PA.
PieterCoetzee
Custom
Hmmmm? As good as maybe. 100s? IDK? I ask because I saw the procurement system in action. Its not that simple. Maybe here in Pa where most of the departments are small; but for big departments 1500+, finding a replacement gun is (can be) a nightmare
But lets say your right are those manufactures able to beat the competition's price and provide a supply of the needed quantity of say 1000 guns with supplies, with leather, with support, with training for the officers and for the range staff, in a short notice? There are very few companies that can.
I get that you may not like Glocks and thats your decision. It sounds like a Blonds, Brunettes, and Red head thing.
Stay safe Brother
KillerFord1977
Emissary
No issue with Glock.
as far as procurement, every major manufacturer can support supply for a LE Agency.
SA, S&W, Sig, HK, FN, etc can ALL support LE agency procurement and training.
PieterCoetzee
Custom
Its reticules to think that every gun company would refuse to do business with any state. I like the thought; but it just wont work, someone, at least one company would break from the conspiracy, and BTW, I suspect even an attempt the get all gun companies to refuse sales to PA or CA or Il or MD orororo would be considered an anti trust conspiracy
PieterCoetzee
Custom
Maybe for a small sub 100 man department, but trust me not for any major department in a short time. Its an inventory thing. None of the companies you listed have 1000 guns just sitting on a shelf waiting for an order. Then theres the leather, and spare mags, and training
Anchorite
Custom
We could engage in on-going discussion about this. I can tell you it starts with the local legislators.
You want court reform? Pass sensible laws, not a lot of that going on across the country today, leaving legislation from the bench (ie, what every calls an "activist" judge/court).
Anchorite
Custom
I think the striker fired pistol design is the best advance in combat pistols in a very long time, Glock just led the way.
The fact is that when you ask the question "what does X do that is markedly better than the Glock the answer is.. Nothing. Performance matters, and when it comes to actual quantifiable performance, that is where they all fall flat.
Glock sets the standard, worldwide. You won't find anyone else's plastic-fantastic doing duty anywhere else. The Glock is to the pistol world what the AK47 is to the rifle world.
And for anyone who complains the Glock feels like a 2x4 in their hand, they really should spend some quality time with a Gen 6. The changes are fairly subtle, but they do make a difference in feel & I think for a better overall feel. And for the record, all my Glocks are gen-3s, and I've shot probably tens of thousands of rounds through different Glocks over the years ... probably nowhere near as much as some of the folks here, but the Glock is a tool, like a shovel, not a fashion statement.
The fact is that when you ask the question "what does X do that is markedly better than the Glock the answer is.. Nothing. Performance matters, and when it comes to actual quantifiable performance, that is where they all fall flat.
Glock sets the standard, worldwide. You won't find anyone else's plastic-fantastic doing duty anywhere else. The Glock is to the pistol world what the AK47 is to the rifle world.
And for anyone who complains the Glock feels like a 2x4 in their hand, they really should spend some quality time with a Gen 6. The changes are fairly subtle, but they do make a difference in feel & I think for a better overall feel. And for the record, all my Glocks are gen-3s, and I've shot probably tens of thousands of rounds through different Glocks over the years ... probably nowhere near as much as some of the folks here, but the Glock is a tool, like a shovel, not a fashion statement.
Annihilator
Hellion
bc22wm
Professional
And that's how it should be, although insurance companies and MLB are exempt from Anti-Trust. 
But it's my fantasy quit peeing in my Wheaties
PieterCoetzee
Custom
I would disagree, sure all major companies "can support LE Agencies"; but an agency cant just call and have 1500 or 1000 or even 500 pistols delivered in a month. Then factor in all the rest of the gear. Im saying that based on experience of my department changing guns a couple times. No company has that kind of inventory just waiting for an agency to hit the buy it now button. Expect from the time the contract is signed to the start of delivery to be 90 days and still not be the complete order.
The Glock COAs are only just now becoming available to the public after several months because several agencies wanted them. Its an inventory and supply chain thing.
Glock has probably the best chance of meeting any kind of contract date because of their huge place in the market; Im not so sure about the others
KillerFord1977
Emissary
I disagree with you.
An LE agency switching firearms will not be a snap decision. It will be planning way ahead between the agency and the firearms company. The firearms company will have plenty of time to work out the details of number of units, support material and logistics. Major firearms companies seek out LE contracts non stop. It is a factor of their business they are used to and pursue relentlessly.
SimonRL
Ronin
Didn’t PA State police just switch to PDPs?
KillerFord1977
Emissary
yes, but apparently it can't be done.
Pennsylvania State Police selects Walther PDP as official duty handgun
“Providing their officers with the PDP’s unmatched versatility and dependability ensures they have the ideal weapon to focus on the situation at hand.”
www.police1.com
PieterCoetzee
Custom
OK yes they did but my point is they didnt JUST do it it wasnt a quick transition process. It was several monthsyes, but apparently it can't be done.
Pennsylvania State Police selects Walther PDP as official duty handgun
“Providing their officers with the PDP’s unmatched versatility and dependability ensures they have the ideal weapon to focus on the situation at hand.”
KillerFord1977
Emissary
depends on the firearm. something that has been out forever will be a quicker transition than a new to market. also depends on what accessories, materials the dept needs. some can be really quick turn over, some, not so much.
SimonRL
Ronin
I would think several months is pretty quick.
PieterCoetzee
Custom
Im just guessing but figure the PSP is a 5000 man department, and lets say they agree to a delivery schedule of 500 guns a month, starting 3 or 4 or 5 months after the contract is signed but thats still 10 months until delivery (plus the initial delay) and then theres the decision of when do they start the new gun training which will be say a 2, maybe 3 day course.
Transition is gonna start with the new leather. If they picked a new holster design there will be a day spent drawing and reholstering without any actual shooting for score. Once thats accomplished only then is it Day and Night quals
Do they wait until all the guns are delivered? or transition groups from each station one at a time or groups from stations spread across the state. In either case you will have some troopers with the new gun and some with the old.
Small departments dont have the issue with needing large quantities but its still an inventory issue for the manufacturer and no manufacturer has 1000 guns sitting on the shelf; even less so for the leather gear companies
Last edited:
PAGunGuy
Custom
An M&P. One of the state agencies are going to those this years. Maybe an Echelon, or a Walther, or F&N.
PieterCoetzee
Custom
OK I hope it works for them