testtest

Power vs capacity

MiataMinded said:
And obviously a retired cop wants to think it's smart to talk to them and not be a "victim" when that just plain doesn't matter in serious cases involving shootings and firearms. The grand jury and prosecutor decides those things.
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OK Brother we're just gonna have to disagree on this one. You can wait for the lawyer, and Im glad your situation worked out for you but WAITING is a liability from which you may never recover. If you can articulate the events in complete sentences and are listed as a VICTIM you wont face a grand jury.

Beyond this do what you want; OH and how long did your lawyer take to show up? How long were you worried about the legal outcome? Victims dont have to worry about being charged
 
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PieterCoetzee said:
OK Brother we're just gonna have to disagree on this one. You can wait for the lawyer, and Im glad your situation worked out for you but WAITING is a liability from which you may never recover. If you can articulate the events in complete sentences and are listed as a VICTIM you wont face a grand jury.

Beyond this do what you want; OH and how long did your lawyer take to show up? How long were you worried about the legal outcome? Victims dont have to worry about being charged
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I spoke to my lawyer the next day, I was released without charges since I live in a free state that makes the government prove you didn't act in self defense and not assert it as an affirmative defense. My lawyer and his team of lawyers then wrote my statement and delivered it to the prosecutor a day after that.


I'm so glad I never spoke to the cops myself because my adrenaline was so high and I didn't quite know what was happening even then. I'm so glad I took the day to gather my thoughts and speak to counsel.
 
Pete, somewhere I've gotten the idea you are a retired police officer. If I'm wrong please accept my apology, but if I'm correct I'd like to ask this question. Were you the type of officer, or personally know some as you've described so many times in this thread as just wanting to write up a report so that he can go home, rather than willing to actually do the job they're paid to do? Man, I gotta say it appears you've really got a bad taste in your mouth for police officers. This is not intended as anything other than for clarification. Certainly not an accusation of any sort. Most who have chimed in here are of the opinion that keeping silent except for name, rank and serial number and asking for an attorney is the right and/or best way to go. But you seem to constantly argue that cops are bad and/or lazy and will develop a bad attitude for someone asking for an attorney. Can you better explain to us.
 
jumpinjoe said:
Pete, somewhere I've gotten the idea you are a retired police officer. If I'm wrong please accept my apology, but if I'm correct I'd like to ask this question. Were you the type of officer, or personally know some as you've described so many times in this thread as just wanting to write up a report so that he can go home, rather than willing to actually do the job they're paid to do? Man, I gotta say it appears you've really got a bad taste in your mouth for police officers. This is not intended as anything other than for clarification. Certainly not an accusation of any sort. Most who have chimed in here are of the opinion that keeping silent except for name, rank and serial number and asking for an attorney is the right and/or best way to go. But you seem to constantly argue that cops are bad and/or lazy and will develop a bad attitude for someone asking for an attorney. Can you better explain to us.
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You just opened up a huge can of worms!
 
jumpinjoe said:
Pete, somewhere I've gotten the idea you are a retired police officer. If I'm wrong please accept my apology, but if I'm correct I'd like to ask this question. Were you the type of officer, or personally know some as you've described so many times in this thread as just wanting to write up a report so that he can go home, rather than willing to actually do the job they're paid to do? Man, I gotta say it appears you've really got a bad taste in your mouth for police officers. This is not intended as anything other than for clarification. Certainly not an accusation of any sort. Most who have chimed in here are of the opinion that keeping silent except for name, rank and serial number and asking for an attorney is the right and/or best way to go. But you seem to constantly argue that cops are bad and/or lazy and will develop a bad attitude for someone asking for an attorney. Can you better explain to us.
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I was thinking the same. I work in law enforcement, in parole, and my first thought wsa this dude is or was a cop.

I agree with the concept of what he is saying, that it might annoy the wrong officer.
US Law shield, and that's what they teach.

Maybe it's becuase I haven't forgotten that besides my job, I'm still a citizen and that we all have rights. Those rights need respected. Maybe it's becuase before I had a badge, I worked in law, not law enforcement, and I am big on our rights.

But there are far too many situations where cops just automatically assume they know what happened, assume guilt, either out of pride, arrogance, laziness, or some combination there of, and telling them more than they need to know isn't usually helpful.

Heck, we aren't even supposed to give a written statement about what happened in a force on force situation for 48 to 72 hours after the event. If we, being trained for these situations, aren't supposed to give a statement right away, why should a public citizen be expected to?
 
Hahaha Yes I was a cop for over 30 years MP, CID, then Local. I think I was the kinda cop you wanted when you called 911. I didnt like doing traffic unless folks went out of their way to say "I want a ticket" (20mph over in a residential zone). I did my share of DWIs especially on the midnite shift.

I once had a guy who was already suspended for a previous DWI, head on a family who were on their way home having just adopted a kitten. The collision blinded their son. So yeah, that driver got everything I could find to charge him with and I took special interest in seeing that he got actual jail time.

When a junkie decide to use the restroom in a kids restaurant to OD, and was found by a 6 year old; after reviving him, I made sure to point out that he used a kids restaurant to the judge. If he had just shot up behind the dumpster, it wouldnt have been an issue for me.

I generally tried to find a solution for folks problems, unless folks went out of their way to say "Please lock me up". I was stabbed by a Sovereign Citizen, shot at by a drunk Viet Nam vet who thought 4th of July fireworks were incoming fire and I was attacked by a crazy woman with a pair of 8" scissors (who as it turned out had murdered an elderly couple).

I also reported an officer for a civil right violation and another for some departmental issues.

I wasnt afraid to go hands on or to guns when necessary; but I also learned that talking down a suspect was a better option when possible.

I was there on the first night of the Joe Palczyki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_C._Palczynski) incident and the night we made the raid on him as part of our SRT team

I started off as a MP, then taught at the MP School. Grenada, Panama, and the First Gulf. I worked the road and as a Protective Agent for a 3 star General in the Persian Gulf. Oh yeah and I jumped out of a few airplanes. Somewhere along the way I found time to cross train as Paramedic and study for the BAR

F__K YES I wanted to go home when my shift was over, just like you and everyone else. I had a family and I wanted to go to my kids events but I knew the job would interfere on occasion. I knew holidays would be spent in a uniform. Anybody that tells you they are happy when 20 minutes before they are supposed to get off, they get handed a turd that will keep them busy for hours, then has someone who makes that worse by not cooperating, is full of it. Its part of the job but not something you look forward to happening.
 
jumpinjoe said:
But you seem to constantly argue that cops are bad and/or lazy and will develop a bad attitude for someone asking for an attorney. Can you better explain to us.
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Its not my attention to say cops are bad or even lazy BUT they are human. Asking for an attorney when you are the VICTIM does add some questions.

Again this assumes you can form complete sentences. Go ahead and say "Lawyer" but the questions will stop and you description of the events wont be part of the initial report, and evidence on your behalf may be missed OR lost.

Its really that simple
 
PAGunGuy said:
Maybe it's becuase I haven't forgotten that besides my job, I'm still a citizen and that we all have rights
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I havent forgotten that either and I hope youre not suggesting that.

I keep saying its all about establishing yourself as the VICTIM.

If you see a grandmother whos been mugged on the street, do you ask her if she wants an attorney before answering your questions? OR if you see a teenager whos been shot and a trail of blood leading away. When the first thing he says is "lawyer", do you scratch your head?
 
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Hi,

PieterCoetzee said:
Hahaha Yes I was a cop for over 30 years MP, CID, then Local. I think I was the kinda cop you wanted when you called 911. I didnt like doing traffic unless folks went out of their way to say "I want a ticket" (20mph over in a residential zone). I did my share of DWIs especially on the midnite shift.

I once had a guy who was already suspended for a previous DWI, head on a family who were on their way home having just adopted a kitten. The collision blinded their son. So yeah, that driver got everything I could find to charge him with and I took special interest in seeing that he got actual jail time.

When a junkie decide to use the restroom in a kids restaurant to OD, and was found by a 6 year old; after reviving him, I made sure to point out that he used a kids restaurant to the judge. If he had just shot up behind the dumpster, it wouldnt have been an issue for me.

I generally tried to find a solution for folks problems, unless folks went out of their way to say "Please lock me up". I was stabbed by a Sovereign Citizen, shot at by a drunk Viet Nam vet who thought 4th of July fireworks were incoming fire and I was attacked by a crazy woman with a pair of 8" scissors (who as it turned out had murdered an elderly couple).

I also reported an officer for a civil right violation and another for some departmental issues.

I wasnt afraid to go hands on or to guns when necessary; but I also learned that talking down a suspect was a better option when possible.

I was there on the first night of the Joe Palczyki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_C._Palczynski) incident and the night we made the raid on him as part of our SRT team

I started off as a MP, then taught at the MP School. Grenada, Panama, and the First Gulf. I worked the road and as a Protective Agent for a 3 star General in the Persian Gulf. Oh yeah and I jumped out of a few airplanes. Somewhere along the way I found time to cross train as Paramedic and study for the BAR

F__K YES I wanted to go home when my shift was over, just like you and everyone else. I had a family and I wanted to go to my kids events but I knew the job would interfere on occasion. I knew holidays would be spent in a uniform. Anybody that tells you they are happy when 20 minutes before they are supposed to get off, they get handed a turd that will keep them busy for hours, then has someone who makes that worse by not cooperating, is full of it. Its part of the job but not something you look forward to happening.
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Thank you for that glimpse into your life. Thank you for your service and sacrifice. It seems you are trying to help people. In my life, I take Micah 6:8 as one of my favorite bits of advice.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 
Pete, thanks for the civil response and answer. Although it still appears many of your assertions are accusatory towards LEO's in general, you've added some clarity. Each of us reading will still have to decide for ourselves if there are more LEO's we can depend on and trust to be fair and logical, or not.
 
jumpinjoe said:
Pete, thanks for the civil response and answer. Although it still appears many of your assertions are accusatory towards LEO's in general, you've added some clarity. Each of us reading will still have to decide for ourselves if there are more LEO's we can depend on and trust to be fair and logical, or not.
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Brother I dont think anything I said was accusatory to cops, it certainly wasnt meant to be, and it confounds me that you would think so. Im simply saying, as I have said all a long, that how you look and react will determine how you are perceived. Look Like/Act Like and expect to be treated like...

Its not about being a bad cop, neither is being frustrated because you were given a call right before your kids kindergarten graduation or their sports final game or your wife called to say your dad was taken to the hospital...Yep its part of the job; but its a part no one NOT on the job can understand. Not somebody who says they work law enforcement but arent really cops can possibly understand. Not somebody who never had their family threatened and described and the car they drive described and the location of their home described, can understand. Yep we accept it and yep we deal with it. So dont think Im accusing anyone if I tell you the truth, just because you dont like the truth. You want cops to be perfect but you also want them to be human, when you say "officer could you give me a break, I was rushing home to see my son before he ships out" or "my daughter is having my first grandson".

NONE of what I suggested about making the officer see you as a VICTIM is violating your rights BUT everything I said about my family being targeted was true and more than one time.

When the mother of a child killed by a drunk driver tells you that anyone who drives drunk deserves to go to jail; is she accusing every driver?

If you got in trouble in school and when you come home, your mom says what happened in school today, and you refuse to talk; do you think your mom will say thats OK its your right not to talk?

When youre out of town and you get notified by a neighbor that your fiancé was taken to the hospital by ambo, and when you call the hospital to ask what happened and they tell you, they cant release the info because you arent a relative, is that OK when youre 12 hours away on business?

Please this ISNT complicated, IF you were the Victim of an assault and you had to use lethal force; because you are elderly or the attackers out numbered you; what are you afraid of saying? EXPLAIN that you were attacked, EXPLAIN that you couldnt escape. EXPLAIN you had no other choice and ARTICULATE the fear you experienced. If YOU dont EXPLAIN your side, you can bet someone else is explaining there side to another cop and making you look like the bad guy. Think THAT hasnt happened? Think again. Do you want to be the first guy that tells the story or the guy who tries to un-tell the lies the other guy said. Itll be bad enough when the witnesses didnt see everything from your angle.

Cops arent trying to violate your rights. It astounds me that you would think that from what Ive said. Theyll let you speak with every attorney you want BUT the investigation and report will be written without your story being told. It will also say that you refused to to give a statement and requested an attorney. That shouldnt be HARD to understand

I went out of my way to provide some of what I think should be useful information and explain why its useful and then I get told Im accusing cops and violating someones rights. REALLY? Maybe you try spending your nights studying for the BAR in between DWIs and domestics and burglar alarms and and and, then you say you have to decide if you can trust cops? Judas Priest Im the cop that said you cant go through a homeless mans encampment without a search warrant because his camp is his home, even if its behind the bushes at the public library (true story). Im the guy that said we cant arrest someone just because they are trying to sell the same brand of lawn mower that was just stolen (not without a LOT more info) Im also the guy that held a guy walking down the street wearing a Spiderman costume near the sight of an armed robbery with the only description being that the robber was wearing a red mask. Once the victim gave a better description, spiderman was identified and free to go. Im the guy that said a cop who made a traffic stop cant question the driver about possessing drugs while hes holding your drivers license and not without a Miranda warning because while he has your license you arent free to go and he cant question you without Miranda while hes holding you

Do what you want and see how it turns out. cuz Im all out of Fs about this.
 
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PieterCoetzee said:
When the mother of a child killed by a drunk driver tells you that anyone who drives drunk deserves to go to jail; is she accusing every driver?

If you got in trouble in school and when you come home, your mom says what happened in school today, and you refuse to talk; do you think your mom will say thats OK its your right not to talk?

When youre out of town and you get notified by a neighbor that your fiancé was taken to the hospital by ambo, and when you call the hospital to ask what happened and they tell you, they cant release the info because you arent a relative, is that OK when youre 12 hours away on business?
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Only the drunk
Hell No Mom was the Constitution / Bill of Rights
Unfortunately that's HIPPA
Is then a person on the ground always a victim
Thanks for the advice and discussion. I do hope the people here have a gameplan, if they are unfortunately involved in a self defense event. After the fact might be a little late. IMO
 
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