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Reality Check: Red Dot Sights

rcurtner said:
Nightstand pistol is an Sig P-229 Legion DA/SA iron sights with mounted light. My primary EDC pistol is an Sig P-220 Legion 45acp SAO with Sig Romeo X Enclosed Pro 6moa green dot. I was very skeptical going to dot optics old tired eyes were having hell finding a clear front sight. Am proud to say, without bragging, can shoot pretty damn good for a 78 year old gezzer since going to pistol mounted optics.
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rcurtner said:
Am proud to say, without bragging, can shoot pretty damn good for a 78 year old gezzer since going to pistol mounted optics.
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I’m right there with you (though only a young whippersnapper of 67). At reasonable self defense distances I would ever face, I don’t doubt I could hit a silhouette sized target pretty much center mass waist to neck with iron sights, or even point shooting, but not with anywhere near the accuracy I can with an optic mounted handgun. I prefer the extra accuracy so I have a better chance of accounting for my rounds.

Edit - I think I will take my Emissary with no optic next range trip, then add the optic and shoot the same target types/distances the trip after that. Certainly not scientific, but will really show me if the optic is helpful.

I suspect this drill at 3 yds will tell the tell (even without using a timer)…

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Lab4Us said:
I’m right there with you (though only a young whippersnapper of 67). At reasonable self defense distances I would ever face, I don’t doubt I could hit a silhouette sized target pretty much center mass waist to neck with iron sights, or even point shooting, but not with anywhere near the accuracy I can with an optic mounted handgun. I prefer the extra accuracy so I have a better chance of accounting for my rounds.

Edit - I think I will take my Emissary with no optic next range trip, then add the optic and shoot the same target types/distances the trip after that. Certainly not scientific, but will really show me if the optic is helpful.

I suspect this drill at 3 yds will tell the tell (even without using a timer)…

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Pretty darn good.
 
Relaxcw said:
Tomorrow I pick up my Echelon 4.0c Comp Gear Up package. It comes with the Viridian RFX 11. Ive never shot with a pistol optic before so this will be interesting to say the least. But, once I get somewhat comfortable (hopefully), Im gonna get the Holosun/Primary Arms 507C X2 ACSS Vulcan green dot. I wear progressive glasses and have astigmatism. I have the chevron type reticle on my AR9/15s and really like it so we will see.
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I like the Holosun circle-dot combo. I don't think I have an astigmatism (yet) but it just picks up so much more quickly (for me) than the dot alone.
 
ECS686 said:
I hear this a lot and respectfully it’s misguided and a lot of times by folks that have taken a they are a Master Jedi mentality

Most robberies aren’t that overt. They will close the distance looking non threading asking for the time or something normal and then spring into action. As they have to be within hamds length to Rob anyone and women get the extra bonus of sexual assualt.

So while some argue resist/irons striker/DA revolver/semi auto etc
I recommend as I stated how they run their chosinn gear in a B8 with a 5 yard rohndup or Baseline assessment drill
And take that close proximity handgun, Cognative decision making classes form between national trainers like Chuck Haggard, John Hearne Darryl Bolke Wayne Dobbs, Lew Weems etc etc.

And I say this as I have seen my share of and rolled up on civilian shootings that are in fact entangled and delt with and interviews several dozen inner city gang bangers inside Federal prisons. It usually isn’t a case of an awareness issue despite anyone best efforts you are not condition black 100% of the time.
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I'd love to take some of those courses. Thankfully, I don't have to live in an inner city area and it's extremely rare when anyone is within 5 feet of me. As a result, anyone that is is scrutinized closely. I'm no Jedi and as susceptible as the next man to someone sneaking up on me. I have added point shooting to my dry fire routine and look forward to incorporating it into live fire drills... when I can find a range that lets folks do such "dangerous" things.
 
I did hear one of the more stupid comments I heard in a while the other day .

The firearms community just can’t not screw stuff up (from the alleged Glock Gen V switch to they can’t accept direct Iptics mount is the best option)

I guess I take for granted skne have zero clue the Glocl A cut is proprietary AND the it is direct mounted to offer a better option tjan the crappy MOS system they have you know with plates that break…..then I hear “that guy”
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ECS686 said:
I did hear one of the more stupid comments I heard in a while the other day .

The firearms community just can’t not screw stuff up (from the alleged Glock Gen V switch to they can’t accept direct Iptics mount is the best option)

I guess I take for granted skne have zero clue the Glocl A cut is proprietary AND the it is direct mounted to offer a better option tjan the crappy MOS system they have you know with plates that break…..then I hear “that guy”
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Not sure what you’re saying? Glock no longer offers MOS slide guns? Or Glock now offers slides cut for specific optics? I know the 5 MOS version Glocks I owned, they all worked flawlessly and all had optics mounted. Only dumped them because I dumped all striker fired guns I owned.
 
Lab4Us said:
Not sure what you’re saying? Glock no longer offers MOS slide guns? Or Glock now offers slides cut for specific optics? I know the 5 MOS version Glocks I owned, they all worked flawlessly and all had optics mounted. Only dumped them because I dumped all striker fired guns I owned.
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First I was liking a little humor on something I heard someone say.

Second the A cut is a direct mount and priority and Glocl suspended the sales of the COA because of agency demand.

Third nobody had issues with Gkick or any MOS with plates until they do. I attend a large amount of teainjng classes as well as see a lot when I have my own classes and AI for folks nationwide.

The plate and specifically the MOS is the weak point and you will have an issue. It’s like running retreads on your car, they will not hold up line new tires.

Forth the best MOS set up is either the Holosun has a direct slide mount for Glocks S&W and Sig on a couple of of their optics. OR the better option buy directly mounted ones that Gkick and S&W offer (Sig you can direct mount a Romeo and such)

Also yes Glock has held off in MOS with the Gen V however there are a ton of direct mount models availinke. There is a reason you’re seeing a lot of companies come out with direct mount options now. Because adapter plates are sub par no matter how god yours worked!

My feeling (from talking to Gkick reps and an instructor I know that work for Glock) they might do away with the MOS which is why thwre is no such offering right now.

I wouldn’t be suprised if the A cut and direct mount (since there are a bazillion optics out there with Acro RMR or Romeo footprints) for those folks and

But since Glock didn’t do so thjng right the. The gun community does what they do, bitch and complain.

I am sure a lot of things will get addressed with the Gen 6
 
ECS686 said:
First I was liking a little humor on something I heard someone say.

Second the A cut is a direct mount and priority and Glocl suspended the sales of the COA because of agency demand.

Third nobody had issues with Gkick or any MOS with plates until they do. I attend a large amount of teainjng classes as well as see a lot when I have my own classes and AI for folks nationwide.

The plate and specifically the MOS is the weak point and you will have an issue. It’s like running retreads on your car, they will not hold up line new tires.

Forth the best MOS set up is either the Holosun has a direct slide mount for Glocks S&W and Sig on a couple of of their optics. OR the better option buy directly mounted ones that Gkick and S&W offer (Sig you can direct mount a Romeo and such)

Also yes Glock has held off in MOS with the Gen V however there are a ton of direct mount models availinke. There is a reason you’re seeing a lot of companies come out with direct mount options now. Because adapter plates are sub par no matter how god yours worked!

My feeling (from talking to Gkick reps and an instructor I know that work for Glock) they might do away with the MOS which is why thwre is no such offering right now.

I wouldn’t be suprised if the A cut and direct mount (since there are a bazillion optics out there with Acro RMR or Romeo footprints) for those folks and

But since Glock didn’t do so thjng right the. The gun community does what they do, bitch and complain.

I am sure a lot of things will get addressed with the Gen 6
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Thanks, that’s a little clearer. All my Glock MOS were direct mount SCS-MOS. Thousands of rounds between the guns. No issues. But it’s like everything else…folks on different sides of the it’s fine/it will always fail argument - no matter the product. Now I will say that I always upgraded to better screws than Holosun provided!
 
Biggfoot44 said:
Partially ringing a bell , but could you remind us of the particulars for those ?
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The 5 yard round up was created by Justin Dyal (Justin was the CO of the USMC MARSOC school house and came up with it

All at 5 yards on a B8 10 rounds total Amd required an 80 or higher (we shokt this at Rangemaster and the instructor courses we have to maintain a 90 or above)

All 2 1/2 second par time

Stage one 1 round from the holster

Stage two from low ready (true low ready muzzle off meat) 4 rounds

Stage three 3 rounds from low ready dominate hand only

Stage four 2 rounds from low ready non dominant hand only

10 rounds for 100 points 80 for passing Rangemaster instructor 90

Rangemaster Baseline Assessment

Stage one 5 yards draw and fire 5 rounds in 5 seconds both hands

Stage two 5 yards gun in dominate hand only low ready 3 rounds 3 seconds

Stage three 5 yards gun in non dominant hand only low ready 2 rounds 3 seconds

Stage four 7 yards 3 rounds in gun spare mag ready gun in hand (both hamds) low ready dire 3 slide lock reload 3 more rounds 10 seconds

Stage five 10 yards gun in hand (both hands) low ready fire 4 rounds in 4 seconds
20 rounds toral 200 possible 60 to pass 180 for Rangemaster instructor

With a 10 or 20round course I can tell if your proficient or not .this is a great test as if you can pass this uiu will pass any LE qual course or instructor school.
 
I admit, RDS are a thing now, and I best get on the bandwagon before I get left behind.

It’s a new way of shooting - as in training yourself - and I need to embrace that. I wear readers and still happily use irons for my daily-and CC pistols and revolvers.

Looking to get one in ‘26….maybe!
 
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