I'm not disputing that statement, it seems rather logical considering some of the data tables published in their manuals. Do you have any links to articles or videos which document it? Again, I'm not being combative, just curious. I've been a bit suspicious ever since I started seeing tables that lump bullets together "in the same weight range" and show velocities in nice round numbers, using very "neat" steps in charge weight. As I stated above, I am more skeptical about such data than I am about publishers which give data for a specific cartridge case / single specific bullet / single specific primer / single specific charge weight. I think that the powder makers plus Lyman win out on this score.
Reloading Manual Data (Conflicts and Agreements)
- Thread starter RedGoat
- Start date
TEXASforLIFE
SAINT
U-TOOBE isn't a place to go for noteworthy reloading info, especially for a novice. hornady pod cast is NOT a place i visit as they try and brainwash you into their products although their bullets and some of their cartridge lines are good (ie, 6.5prc and such). they make a saami version of decades of already wildcated cartridges as they just make very minor changes and stamp their name on it! i guess the same could be said for rem and nosler, but wby with their double radius is 1 of a kind. the only reason i bought a 6.5creed is i'm a 26cal fan and there wasn't any 260rem AR barrels when i was looking. as far as the not showing/listing of pressures in/with most data i'm with ya on that part as it could give an idea of the case capacity for their loads for comparisons ONLY with the exact bullet you're using (which can still vary between lots and in the same lot). ogive differences and bearing surfaces with lengths of difference lengths in the same lot. i've never sorted by weight, ogive and/or length, but then i've never shot comps as they have OCD when it comes to that! i also don't weight sort cases as that doesn't matter when it comes to case capacities at times.
TEXASforLIFE
SAINT
i don't, but have been told by some cs reps about the QL data use. haven't heard anything about if they used GRT though as it might be a better choice over QL?
I only use GRT over QL because I've been too "cheap" in the past to buy QL. And now, for the present time, QL is evidently blocked from U.S. sales because the mothership is a German company and the ongoing tariff disputes have somehow kicked in some sort of ITAR restrictions. All this according to QL's U.S. sales web site.
TEXASforLIFE
SAINT
you can still buy it, but i don't remember where from..............i think it comes from the east coast area for us buyers.
this is nuts @ nearly $1k. i only paid iirc $175 about 10 years ago
QuickLoad Ballistic Prediction Software | Neconos.com
www.neconos.com
LOL! I totally agree regarding the reliability of YouTube videos. I cannot imagine being a kid again, having access to a resource like YouTube, and having to figure out what's solid info and what's not. Even now, I simply use it as one resource among many.
I also agree about the self-promotion that goes into the Hornady podcasts. Unless I'm missing the point, that's probably the main purpose for producing them in the first place. That being said, I believe they've overall done the shooting sports community a solid by putting out some very interesting (and useful) ballistics info on a number of topics in very understandable form. I try to ignore the "put on Hornady blinders" content and take away what's provable and useful. The rest I just leave on the table.
I don't sort stuff either. I do occasionally go through a box of components (such as bullets) to weigh and measure each one in order to harvest data about the RANGE of variation in order to have a baseline for comparison against future purchases of the same SKU.
For cases, I will measure the water capacity of a couple of loading blocks of a given headstamp. Case weight itself is pretty meaningless. I've seen instances where several cases having identical water capacity will have wildly differing case weights. Plus, what happens the first time one trims that batch of cases? Answer, the case weights change! But I've found batches of a given case headstamp provides a fairly consistent range of water capacity if I take the measurements on unresized, fireformed cases from a single rifle and sort cases by case length. The only reason I care about case capacities is that I think that it is a factor (how much I do not know) in the pressure level of a given load.
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Yes. This is the "stateside" sales site. The 1K price is basically a placeholder, I think, to force potential buyers to read the remainder of the front page. Further down one will find the explanation that US stateside sales are currently suspended (backordered) due to ongoing tariffs. The other web site you list below is the European site where the price is MUCH more reasonable. But I have to assume that if there's some sort of thing going on with the US site not being able to obtain copies, that ordering from the European site will also be a vain gesture. I could be wrong...you can still buy it, but i don't remember where from..............i think it comes from the east coast area for us buyers.
this is nuts @ nearly $1k. i only paid iirc $175 about 10 years ago
QuickLoad Ballistic Prediction Software | Neconos.com
Ah... I see where I got the ITAR business from... Even further down the page there is an explanation that the only media format available for purchase is on CD due to ITAR restrictions... Very strange.
TEXASforLIFE
SAINT
in post #26 for 188 bucks you can buy it......no back order and will ship from US. add it to cart and find out.........worked for me
TEXASforLIFE
SAINT
it includes qt and ql. qt ranges out to 2,500 meters as info from ql is used. i haven't checked how accurate it is yet
Annihilator
Hellion
I haven’t reloaded since the 90’s, quit right after I have up benchrest competition, if you want to believe it or not, primers make a big difference in your reloads, also neck tension on rifle calibers. Like many said, I also bought powder in bulk, also with my primers, most of you probably already know about what I posted, but just wanted to add it in, if I was out of line, my apologies
Excellent. I'll give it a try ASAP. I'd like to have a copy to play with.
I believe it about the primers. And I know that neck tension is yet another factor. That is one of the things that I obsess over. I try to balance out obtaining a good neck tension with not overworking the case neck. There's several ways to do it. I have one that I think is a little rare now: I use a Redding body only die to size the body and bump the should back very slightly, then use a Lee collet neck sizer (rather than a mandrel) to set neck ID. In a pinch, I've also used a Redding F/L Type "S" die without a bushing in place of the body die. And.... I will confess, I've been known to neck size only with the Lee collet die (blush).
One is never out of line when posting information. If I'm not mistaken, there are folks here at all levels of knowledge and experience. To my way of thinking, any related information is fair game. I enjoy sharing what I've learned because at some point someone else took the time to make the information available to me. So I figure anything posted / responded that is pertinent to the subject at hand might be useful to someone.
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You just made me think of another topic. But I'm gonna withhold it for another day, another thread, since it is considerably off the beam from the original post.
Anchorite
Custom
This. I shot benchrest from 87 to about 94. Due to some life changes I got out of BR, but still kept shooting until about the early 2000s, and then I took my sabbatical from all things shooting and reloading.
When I got back into things, I’d felt like Rip van Winkle waking from a deep sleep. A lot has changed, but primers and uniform primer pockets are critical - more so than how much your bullets weights vary, or your case weights out of a lot of brass, or the pressure of your load.
All that other stuff is academically interesting but rather meaningless to small groups on paper.
That brass bottle just holds that bullet, but the primer and powder are your spark plug and fuel. Brass quality is superior today, and thank goodness no turn necks have finally gained acceptance. You can’t really control the powder or primer like you can the brass and bullet. Think about that for a minute. We don’t always need the fastest load or the lowest pressure load to hit peak performance.
There are so many variables in the equation … and you can’t control them all. Learn to read the wind flags and you’ll be able to outshoot 90% of your competition.
"When I got back into things, I’d felt like Rip van Winkle waking from a deep sleep." LOL I felt the same way when I emerged from the "busy with life, wife, kids and work" phase of my life and had more time to engage in my passion for all things ballistic.
I agree about the seeming endless list of variables which go into each and every shot. That's part of what I find so fascinating about firearms and ammunition. Fun!!
I grew up in the Texas Panhandle... I know about the wind. If one can get a hit on a "mildly breezy" day up there (translation: wind at 20 mph, with gusts up to 40 or 50), mastery has been achieved.
Anchorite
Custom
Ahhhhh... that west Texas wind ....
Let me tell you a short story, there was a guy in Texas named Harold Broughton. Harold was a Predator control officer for one of those small Texas counties for years. Later on in his life, he became involved in barrel making and Benchrest shooting.
Harold and his Wife shot the 220 Swift for 30+ years. In his later coyote shooting, he went to the 257 IMP which is a clone in ballistics to the 25/06. He said that the 100g Bullet clobbered those Texas yotes with authority at 500 and beyond whene the Swift seemed to give out around 450 yards.
Since Harold had killed over 5000 yotes, you could say he really liked that 25 caliber for west-Texas twister weather!
I have since (sadly) sold them both, but I was once upon a time the proud owner of both a 25-06 and also a 257 Roberts. The 25-06 was a factory Rem 700 BDL, built not long after Remington made the cartridge a SAAMI standardized factory offering. The 257 Roberts was built on a Mauser '98 action custom barreled by a guy who lived just west of the outskirts of Amarillo. He operated in a small building out behind his home, and his business was called X-Bar Rifles (or Rifle Shop, I can't remember which). I had the entire barreled action polished and blued, ordered a nice stock from Bishops and fitted it myself. I reloaded for both and both were very accurate, but the 257 was noticeably more so. They took a LOT of jackrabbits, quite a few coyotes, and a couple of mule deer. The 25-06 was used to take an Aoudad (barbary sheep) that inhabit the canyons that feed into the Palo Duro and protrude up the Caprock Escarpment.
I don't own a single 25 caliber rifle now... The 25 Creedmoor looks pretty attractive though. I think that I'd like to have one and maybe another 257 Bob for nostalgia's sake.
Winchester67
Custom
Gents, the interweb is awash with people claiming the "Lawyers are writing the manuals now" as they cling to their 1960 Edition. Here is the real scoop: Advancements in pressure testing means every manufacturer can afford to do it now. The reason the old manuals were higher is there was a LOT more "by guess and by gosh" in print back then because they were doing things like looking at primers in an attempt to gauge pressure. Very inaccurate. I have spent a lot of time in a ballistic lab as a manual was being developed. It really opened my eyes. Just looking at brass or primers is wildly unsafe, even though I thought I knew what I was doing as I had been reloading over 20 years by then. It taught me to trust the manual. Eyes and fingers are hard to fix.
Thanks for adding your experience and first-hand knowledge to this conversation. I mentioned early in this thread that I have a collection of reloading manuals which stretches back to the '60s and late '50s.
I've noticed that many reloading manuals today still include some frontal writing that covers discerning pressure signs via "reading primers", it is usually writing that has been carried from edition to edition for decades with little change. However, most modern manuals will also include warnings which almost directly contradicts the older material and cautions the reader to essentially "back way the heck off" if ANY of the classic pressure signs appear.
To my way of thinking, if lawyers were strictly dictating the content of the manuals, those older portions which cover "reading pressure signs" would be long gone, banished from the frontal material of reloading manuals forever, to be replaced by a one-liner printed in huge bold red letters that reads, "MAXIMUM means MAXIMUM. DO NOT EXCEED means DO NOT EXCEED"
Another thing that "bugs me" about manuals: The publishers are taking the time to gather all of that data including pressure readings. Why do they not publish their pressure data rather than leave the users of their data "in the dark?" To me, that's a head scratcher. They're already publishing information which the users of their product can potentially misuse and abuse. Why not go ahead and provide full disclosure?
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