Keystone19250
SAINT
Ok then. Take your business to where it makes you happy.
Review: 9mm Emissary 1911 — Almost Like Cheating
- Thread starter Mike H.
- Start date
No one would pay $1300 for a RIA or Tisas...they're not priced that high. I bought and Iver Johnson (I believe they are made in the Philippines) long slide with fully adjustable target sights for just at $700 and the first 10 shots out of the gun after a good cleaning were almost in the same hole at 15 yards. That's with factory, White-box, Win-Western ball Ammo. Yes, Springfield has some offerings that can do the same thing, but for, again, $500(+) more. I buy a firearm for 1.) Accuracy 2.) Quality (It's hard to get accuracy without quality) and 3.) value. None of the guns I have are going to be put back up for sale, so re-sale value doesn't mean a rip to me. Stainless steel is all nice and purdie, but I know how to take care of and store a firearm so I'm not worried about rust. As for looks, the most important view of ANY gun to me is when I'm safely behind it. You're not really looking at the finish of the metal when you're squaring up your sights.
I do agree with what I believe Colt45 above was trying to say. I will not spend money on a polymer parts, striker fired handgun. If it doesn't have a hammer on the back of it, I don't like it. The technology of plastics/composites has come light years since the mid 80s, and I'm sure there are some truly accurate, quality made plastic pistols out there. But just not for me.
If I ever find a Springfield Loaded Range-master in 9mm for the same price I paid for a "Filipino" made long slide .45, I'd be glad to buy it. But it doesn't look like S/A is the slightest bit concerned about the consumer market constituency I'm in. With the discontinuance of the Range Master line and the emergence of this new campaign for the Emissary, along with other lines they are hyping, it looks like they are instead just casually stepping over and walking away.
KillerFord1977
SAINT
Striker Fired . Sig Legion X5’s are insanely accurate. Metal handguns as well.
I own all guns. Striker fired. Hammer. Old. New.
I go for quality.
Dont give up on your past but embrace the new .
I am a collector of firearms. I look at the whole package. That includes the finish. I shoot a lot. Much more than anyone I’ve personally met. Every firearm I own, still looks like new. I own some $600 1911s, I’ve owned several. I don’t think they are junk by any stretch. If I did, they’d never last long. That said, they are $600 guns.
I have not personally seen the Emissary, It looks like something for a different crowd than I. I can’t weigh in on that specific gun. That said, I know the quality Springfield puts out compared to their peers. By their peers, I mean Colt, S&W, Kimber, etc. There is nothing wrong with a $600 budget 1911, I just wouldn’t put 90% of them on par with a $1000 or $1200 1911 from one of those big midrange players.
The only $600 Springfield I’ve had my hands on is a stainless milspec. I, in general, don’t care for a basic milspec. I shot my neighbor’s. I would have traded my favorite of my $600, feature loaded budget 1911s on the spot. They were both brand new. I even offered, he refused.
Bassbob
Emissary
I don't box myself in. I evaluate every weapon and my desire to own it on it's own merits and my own needs. I too love cold steel, hammer fired pistols. I have some nice 1911s. Down in a 5' deep hole in the middle of a street in some crap neighborhood in north St. Louis, digging out a gas main with a shovel is really not an ideal situation for a 1911 strapped to me. It is however infinitely more workable with a striker fired Shield in an IWB holster.
It's also more realistic to say that 1911s and other steel guns are more accurate for some people because they haven't trained with any other handguns. Does a nice 1911 trigger make you more accurate ? No it does not. You may be more accurate with a nice 1911 trigger, but that is because you haven't spent enough or any time behind something as pedestrian as a typical trigger on a striker fired carry gun. In reality almost any gun can be accurate, it depends on how much time you spend training with it.
I really have no input with regards to SA 1911s since I have never seen one much less handled or owned one. I only know what I have read here or in magazines. Since we are concerned with "Quality" though, it seems odd to me that you would sing the praises of Turkish and Filipino 1911s. I own a Filipino 1911 and while I haven't had any issues with it, it's a straight up piece of crap compared to a Wilson Combat or almost any other US, custom 1911.
I have no doubt that the SA 1911 you are basing your opinions on had problems. There are many examples of people who have had problems with any number of SA handguns. The same exact thing can be said though about damn near ANY brand of handgun. I see no purpose in coming to a SA specific web forum to complain about it. Choose a Tisas or whatever gun you prefer and move on..
Keystone19250
SAINT
Annihilator
Emissary
Keystone19250
SAINT
J
I and anyone else here will not discourage a forum member from discussing guns made by other members, that is what makes this forum great however you do so so you can attack SA I owned a SA 1911 Range (Officer) 45ACP and found it to be a fantastic shooter and although I sold it I now own a SA 1911 Emissary in 45ACP and that gun is incredibly well made and a all around beautiful gun.
I respect your opinion to not like Springfield Armory guns but that begs the question as to why you joined the Springfield Armory forum? If it’s just to me negative then move on.
so not only is this your second negative rant about Springfield Armory you are now calling an SA 1911 a Range Master when that particular 1911 is made by STI
I and anyone else here will not discourage a forum member from discussing guns made by other members, that is what makes this forum great however you do so so you can attack SA I owned a SA 1911 Range (Officer) 45ACP and found it to be a fantastic shooter and although I sold it I now own a SA 1911 Emissary in 45ACP and that gun is incredibly well made and a all around beautiful gun.
I respect your opinion to not like Springfield Armory guns but that begs the question as to why you joined the Springfield Armory forum? If it’s just to me negative then move on.
The above three posts from Killerford, Philmo, and BassBob are well written and poignant. Thanks to those that host and take the time to contribute to this forum.
My father spontaneously went out and bought the S/A Ronin in 5" a few months ago and it has performed wonderously. He paid just a little under what was advertised for the Loaded Range Officer in stainless. I'm thinking the Ronin is just a step under the level of features-present on the Range Officers for the price [i.e. he paid $120 too much for it]. But he is very happy with it. We both enjoy shooting it and he enjoys showing it off to his range buddies. There's no doubt that S/A makes some truly quality firearms.
My initial membership and contributions to this forum were due to an email from Springfield Armory touting the bells and whistles and wonderous Huzzah of the Emissary. I'm not sure how or why my In Box was targeted for such blatant folly, but I felt the compunction to respond. And since trying to have a discussion with ANY companies executive officers is about as effective as diving into a contemplative debate on philosophical issues with an iguana, I brought the discussion here. (Yes, I'm sure someone out there will argue that there are SOME companies that have executive officers that listen. That short list definitely belongs in some other thread)
I will bid Tchuss to this thread and again thank all that have chimed into the discussion. See y'all in other threads hopefully. I've thoroughly enjoyed the discussions and contributions in another threads
Keep yer stick on the ice. We're all in this together.
My father spontaneously went out and bought the S/A Ronin in 5" a few months ago and it has performed wonderously. He paid just a little under what was advertised for the Loaded Range Officer in stainless. I'm thinking the Ronin is just a step under the level of features-present on the Range Officers for the price [i.e. he paid $120 too much for it]. But he is very happy with it. We both enjoy shooting it and he enjoys showing it off to his range buddies. There's no doubt that S/A makes some truly quality firearms.
My initial membership and contributions to this forum were due to an email from Springfield Armory touting the bells and whistles and wonderous Huzzah of the Emissary. I'm not sure how or why my In Box was targeted for such blatant folly, but I felt the compunction to respond. And since trying to have a discussion with ANY companies executive officers is about as effective as diving into a contemplative debate on philosophical issues with an iguana, I brought the discussion here. (Yes, I'm sure someone out there will argue that there are SOME companies that have executive officers that listen. That short list definitely belongs in some other thread)
I will bid Tchuss to this thread and again thank all that have chimed into the discussion. See y'all in other threads hopefully. I've thoroughly enjoyed the discussions and contributions in another threads
Keep yer stick on the ice. We're all in this together.
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Keystone19250
SAINT
Awe he didn’t like my posts, I’m going to be upset for perhaps a second or two.
Annihilator
Emissary
Long story I will try to shorten, all gun manufacturers will have a gun that has issues, anything man makes will break sooner or later, Springfield has a great reputation for customer service. Few years back I bought one of the new reissued S&W 66 with the two- piece barrel and ball/detent crane. After less then 50 rounds the gun went out of time, I didn’t send it back to S&W due to there questionable customer service, my gunsmith used to be a warranty repair station for S&W, he fixed it for $40.00, now it’s a good gun, did this deter me from buying any other S&W’s nope, bought two after this, what I am trying to say is sometimes a gun will slip through the system, but I don’t think it’s fair to say and to come down on a company because of an issue, Springfield will take care of it and you, unlike some other companies that will just feed you BS, rant over, carry on.
Ugh, dammit. Maybe the foundation for my post got lost in the build-up around it. I don't doubt that Springfield makes some top quality and beautifully made machinery. Their customer service is probably excellent - I've luckily never had to use it which is probably a testament to the quality of their workmanship.
I guess I need to reiterate:
They charge too much for the product they offer. They are over priced for the level of performance that can easily be matched by their competitors. (Yes, mainly, but not all foreign, competitors) And they have the audacity to flaunt this fact by stuffing it RIGHT in people's faces, IN Boxes, and color glossy magazines that wind up in your (my?) mail. This comes ESPECIALLY in light of the origin of this thread touting the supposed virtues of the new S/A Emissary.
And BTW, Keystone I didn't dislike your post(s). I've enjoyed hearing from everyone on this thread. Every post so far has had valuable points to consider. I'll look forward to reading more on other threads.
Stay safe.
I guess I need to reiterate:
They charge too much for the product they offer. They are over priced for the level of performance that can easily be matched by their competitors. (Yes, mainly, but not all foreign, competitors) And they have the audacity to flaunt this fact by stuffing it RIGHT in people's faces, IN Boxes, and color glossy magazines that wind up in your (my?) mail. This comes ESPECIALLY in light of the origin of this thread touting the supposed virtues of the new S/A Emissary.
And BTW, Keystone I didn't dislike your post(s). I've enjoyed hearing from everyone on this thread. Every post so far has had valuable points to consider. I'll look forward to reading more on other threads.
Stay safe.
Sld1959
Hellcat
Look at it this way, market sales and demand basically sets retail prices. If, MANY, other people did not think the product was worth the asking price, the firearms would not sell, period. This then would require SA to drop thier prices to compete in a free market. And it seem that thier company is doing rather well...
Given that thier products are generally hard to come by, much less for much under MSRP your opinion, MUST be in the minority. At least in the minority in the group of people desiring to buy Sa products.
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Sld1959
Hellcat
Of course the prices have been exacerbated the past few years due to the interesting times we have been living through. Eventually, unless we end up living through something even worse, prices will drop. Perhaps drop considerably because of the amounts purchased during these times, thus creating a more buyer friendly market.
Time will tell.
And honestly, buying any firearm and expecting something that performs in your hands like Rob Letham, is like buying a Chevy and expecting to win stock car races because Dale Earnhardt drove one.
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