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Russian Ammo Sanction Opinion

Sounds like it's time to try something else, than some random reloaded stuff.
well, they have been in business since the 1970's.

i think the quality control has been put aside, in order to produce more reloads due to demand.

i do have a new place, i have yet to actually go to, for reloaded ammo.

up until the covid and shortages of ammo, his stuff was pretty darned good, according to others at the range that know of him.

but yeah, i have pretty much slowed down buying from him. instead of returning the spent casings for credit towards another box, i throw them in a 5 gallon bucket, that i will take to the recycling yard, for cash.
 
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More info from the net...

With the Biden administration announcement that it will not be renewing permits to import Russian ammo unless the country meets certain demands. Currently valid agreements to bring Tula, Barnhaul and other popular loads ashore were not canceled, although their unknown expiration dates and that carry a maximum length of two years sent the price of steel-cased fodder up overnight.

Already, the Turks are stepping up....

Enthusiasts in search of 9mm NATO, however, can now choose brass-cased, Turkish-made,124-grain FMJ loads from SAR USA by Sarsilmaz—one of the world’s largest manufacturers of premium firearms and ammunition. “This is an incredible opportunity to bring high-quality ammunition to new SAR firearm owners and a market desperate for it,” said Todd Pearson, COO for SAR USA. “SAR ammunition is designed, engineered and manufactured to perform to the highest standards.”
 
More info from the net...

With the Biden administration announcement that it will not be renewing permits to import Russian ammo unless the country meets certain demands. Currently valid agreements to bring Tula, Barnhaul and other popular loads ashore were not canceled, although their unknown expiration dates and that carry a maximum length of two years sent the price of steel-cased fodder up overnight.

Already, the Turks are stepping up....

Enthusiasts in search of 9mm NATO, however, can now choose brass-cased, Turkish-made,124-grain FMJ loads from SAR USA by Sarsilmaz—one of the world’s largest manufacturers of premium firearms and ammunition. “This is an incredible opportunity to bring high-quality ammunition to new SAR firearm owners and a market desperate for it,” said Todd Pearson, COO for SAR USA. “SAR ammunition is designed, engineered and manufactured to perform to the highest standards.”
Thanks for info Talyn,
Possibly surprising to some people, there's many different calibers of steel case ammo besides 9mm and 7.62x39 manufactured. Supposedly, some of the imported brass case ammo isn't re-loadable. Haven't tried.
 
Folks, have to realize that since the existing regime isn't issueing new import permits, that those that are existing are still in effect and as per the info above those permits are good for two years. So, those permits issued earlier can still allow for alot of imports, and I imagine the importers will be ramping up the amounts brought in with those permits.

But media types, and vendors will gin things up so folks make a run on stuff and allow for prices to increase.
 
i say, make it in the states, under a different name.

where there is a will, there is a way.
A range near where I live has begun to make ammo - .380 and 9. I'm guessing that they are reloading the thousands of shells they have been collecting from when people shoot at the range. Not sure about the quality of it, but I can definitely use it rather than storebought stuff when I shoot there. I'm sure it will be cheaper than storebought.
 
A range near where I live has begun to make ammo - .380 and 9. I'm guessing that they are reloading the thousands of shells they have been collecting from when people shoot at the range. Not sure about the quality of it, but I can definitely use it rather than storebought stuff when I shoot there. I'm sure it will be cheaper than storebought.
i too buy reloaded ammo. but there are times, it is so smokey, i need a search beacon, to see thru all the smoke.

the range i belong to, does not reload the spent casings, they sell it, either in the store, (by a bag full) or to a recycler, in buckets.

the club, just sells it to a recycler, although some club members take the spent casings for their own reloading.

i had wanted to get into reloading myself, but, no presses, dies were available, nor the components.

this is ok, i will stock up on new ammo, as the prices come down.

i started this sport/hobby in january of 2020, just a couple/three months, before the SHTF...........

i picked the wrong time to get into it.
 
More info.


In a fact sheet published by the SAAF, they estimate that 765,487,845 shells, cartridges, or parts thereof, came in from Russia in 2020. Going off their estimate of about 11.8 billion rounds manufactured or imported in 2018, Russian ammo accounts for roughly 6.5% of all ammunition on the domestic market.

Import-Numbers.png

Small Arms Analytics & Forecasting 2020 Numbers

Not an insignificant percentage by any means, but certainly less than the 40% estimates I’ve seen floating around. The percentage that Russian ammo imports make up of certain calibers, such as 7.62×39, 5.45×39, 9×18, or 7.62x54R, is almost certainly much higher, and may very well be 40%.

Note:

HOW DO AMMO IMPORTS WORK?​

First things first, we have to establish how importers actually get imports. The ATF has of course, not made this easy. Fortunately, I was able to talk briefly with a pair of experts and get the layman’s version. I would like to thank David of Discreet Ballistics, and Christopher Thomas of Mark Barnes & Associates for answering my questions. David is a Type 08 FFL holder. Type 08 FFLs are those that actually permit you to go about importing firearms and ammunition from abroad. Christopher Thomas is an attorney who specializes in the import of firearms and ammunition.

For a Type 08 FFL, the process is fairly straightforward. Once you have your FFL, you register as an importer with the ATF and Department of State. Then the FFL sources whatever it is they would like to import and fills out an ATF Form 6. A Form 6 is good for two years but is limited to the types and quantities of whatever is on the form. For example, let’s say Generic Ammo Importer fills out a Form 6 to import a bunch of ammo from Russia. They would write on the form they are importing 20 million rounds of 7.62×39 FMJ Tulammo, or whatever else they are importing. They may also import some sporting shotguns, some 9mm, or what have you. The point is that it all goes on a Form 6.

Now comes the actual importation process. Twenty million rounds of ammo is a lot. So Generic Ammo Importer might bring it over in 10 shipments of 2 million rounds. For each shipment, you have to file a Form 6A. This is different from a standard Form 6. While a Form 6 requires ATF approval, just like a Form 1 to build your own suppressor, a 6A does not. The importer files it with customs, but it does not require any sort of approval process.

WHY DOES A FORM 6 VS A 6A MATTER?​

This is where the wording of the new ban comes into play. The exact text of the order reads:

New and pending permit applications for the permanent importation of firearms and ammunition manufactured or located in Russia will be subject to a policy of denial.
Since 6As theoretically do not require approval, anyone with an existing Form 6 should still be able to bring in whatever ammo they are already approved for. The number of still valid Form 6s is likely in the dozens, if not hundreds, so ammo will still trickle in over the next two years.

Form-6-Header-660x68.png

The headline of an ATF Form 6
 
More info.


In a fact sheet published by the SAAF, they estimate that 765,487,845 shells, cartridges, or parts thereof, came in from Russia in 2020. Going off their estimate of about 11.8 billion rounds manufactured or imported in 2018, Russian ammo accounts for roughly 6.5% of all ammunition on the domestic market.

Import-Numbers.png

Small Arms Analytics & Forecasting 2020 Numbers

Not an insignificant percentage by any means, but certainly less than the 40% estimates I’ve seen floating around. The percentage that Russian ammo imports make up of certain calibers, such as 7.62×39, 5.45×39, 9×18, or 7.62x54R, is almost certainly much higher, and may very well be 40%.

Note:

HOW DO AMMO IMPORTS WORK?​

First things first, we have to establish how importers actually get imports. The ATF has of course, not made this easy. Fortunately, I was able to talk briefly with a pair of experts and get the layman’s version. I would like to thank David of Discreet Ballistics, and Christopher Thomas of Mark Barnes & Associates for answering my questions. David is a Type 08 FFL holder. Type 08 FFLs are those that actually permit you to go about importing firearms and ammunition from abroad. Christopher Thomas is an attorney who specializes in the import of firearms and ammunition.

For a Type 08 FFL, the process is fairly straightforward. Once you have your FFL, you register as an importer with the ATF and Department of State. Then the FFL sources whatever it is they would like to import and fills out an ATF Form 6. A Form 6 is good for two years but is limited to the types and quantities of whatever is on the form. For example, let’s say Generic Ammo Importer fills out a Form 6 to import a bunch of ammo from Russia. They would write on the form they are importing 20 million rounds of 7.62×39 FMJ Tulammo, or whatever else they are importing. They may also import some sporting shotguns, some 9mm, or what have you. The point is that it all goes on a Form 6.

Now comes the actual importation process. Twenty million rounds of ammo is a lot. So Generic Ammo Importer might bring it over in 10 shipments of 2 million rounds. For each shipment, you have to file a Form 6A. This is different from a standard Form 6. While a Form 6 requires ATF approval, just like a Form 1 to build your own suppressor, a 6A does not. The importer files it with customs, but it does not require any sort of approval process.

WHY DOES A FORM 6 VS A 6A MATTER?​

This is where the wording of the new ban comes into play. The exact text of the order reads:


Since 6As theoretically do not require approval, anyone with an existing Form 6 should still be able to bring in whatever ammo they are already approved for. The number of still valid Form 6s is likely in the dozens, if not hundreds, so ammo will still trickle in over the next two years.

Form-6-Header-660x68.png

The headline of an ATF Form 6
Nice chart and information Talyn
 
If it means losing billions in ammo sales the Russians might just move production to plant(s) in Belarus or Ukraine.
Give the product new names, done. When there is high demand there will be somebody clever enough to capitalize on it.
 
Thanks for info Talyn,
Articles a good one. There's other talk on grapevine such as other countries exporting to take up or fill in gap left by Russia. Have also heard rumors / talk of some companies relocating as well. Importing / exporting anything can be very involved and tedious. On the Steel Case or other imported Russian ammo, like article implies and states, it's not usually just switched on /off. Many things are processing and still in transit from previous commitments.
 
well, they have been in business since the 1970's.

i think the quality control has been put aside, in order to produce more reloads due to demand.

i do have a new place, i have yet to actually go to, for reloaded ammo.

up until the covid and shortages of ammo, his stuff was pretty darned good, according to others at the range that know of him.

but yeah, i have pretty much slowed down buying from him. instead of returning the spent casings for credit towards another box, i throw them in a 5 gallon bucket, that i will take to the recycling yard, for cash.

"well, they have been in business since the 1970's."

Sometimes means little to nothing. Company names sometimes mean very little. Same as with companies founding date. Their employees, sources and supplies may have changed as well as actual owners and operators over the years and likely have.
 
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