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S&W 686-6

M

mikep

Hellcat
A few weeks ago i was asking about a S&W 637-2. It caught my eye and i thought it may be a fun carry gun. And not having a revolver yet, i thought it may be a good place to start. Then i started reading about it and how snubbies are not the most fun gun to shoot and it takes a bit of practice to get it down.
I decided to try a 686 the range had in their rentals and i was hooked. So i did what most reasonable gun enthusiast would do… i bought one. Picked it up from GB for a little under the average sold price.
It is terrific shape, was well cared for and functioned just fine. Being new to revolvers i spent most of my range time figuring out grip and the the DA trigger, which i actually liked. The pull is heavy but smooth. SA almost too light. I shot mostly DA and ran 38 special and .357 mag. I like the .357 better… spicy.
I am glad i branched out from the semi and when i get a better feel for it i will put it “on duty” somewhere in the house.
78224354086__C8B13E7D-7978-4ADE-8A76-D3260DA57426.jpeg
686-6 Plus, 4” barrel and 7 round cylinder. I am happy with my purchase.
 
mikep said:
A few weeks ago i was asking about a S&W 637-2. It caught my eye and i thought it may be a fun carry gun. And not having a revolver yet, i thought it may be a good place to start. Then i started reading about it and how snubbies are not the most fun gun to shoot and it takes a bit of practice to get it down.
I decided to try a 686 the range had in their rentals and i was hooked. So i did what most reasonable gun enthusiast would do… i bought one. Picked it up from GB for a little under the average sold price.
It is terrific shape, was well cared for and functioned just fine. Being new to revolvers i spent most of my range time figuring out grip and the the DA trigger, which i actually liked. The pull is heavy but smooth. SA almost too light. I shot mostly DA and ran 38 special and .357 mag. I like the .357 better… spicy.
I am glad i branched out from the semi and when i get a better feel for it i will put it “on duty” somewhere in the house.
View attachment 95991686-6 Plus, 4” barrel and 7 round cylinder. I am happy with my purchase.
Click to expand...
The 686 is a solid revolver.

I have a pre-lock 4" and a H-Lock 5" and both are fine revolvers.
 
mikep said:
A few weeks ago i was asking about a S&W 637-2. It caught my eye and i thought it may be a fun carry gun. And not having a revolver yet, i thought it may be a good place to start. Then i started reading about it and how snubbies are not the most fun gun to shoot and it takes a bit of practice to get it down.
I decided to try a 686 the range had in their rentals and i was hooked. So i did what most reasonable gun enthusiast would do… i bought one. Picked it up from GB for a little under the average sold price.
It is terrific shape, was well cared for and functioned just fine. Being new to revolvers i spent most of my range time figuring out grip and the the DA trigger, which i actually liked. The pull is heavy but smooth. SA almost too light. I shot mostly DA and ran 38 special and .357 mag. I like the .357 better… spicy.
I am glad i branched out from the semi and when i get a better feel for it i will put it “on duty” somewhere in the house.
View attachment 95991686-6 Plus, 4” barrel and 7 round cylinder. I am happy with my purchase.
Click to expand...
Nice Mike & congrats. I have a 686 Plus TALO 7" 7 rounder that I've enjoyed, hopefully yours will provide you with similar enjoyment. (y)
 
mikep said:
A few weeks ago i was asking about a S&W 637-2. It caught my eye and i thought it may be a fun carry gun. And not having a revolver yet, i thought it may be a good place to start. Then i started reading about it and how snubbies are not the most fun gun to shoot and it takes a bit of practice to get it down.
I decided to try a 686 the range had in their rentals and i was hooked. So i did what most reasonable gun enthusiast would do… i bought one. Picked it up from GB for a little under the average sold price.
It is terrific shape, was well cared for and functioned just fine. Being new to revolvers i spent most of my range time figuring out grip and the the DA trigger, which i actually liked. The pull is heavy but smooth. SA almost too light. I shot mostly DA and ran 38 special and .357 mag. I like the .357 better… spicy.
I am glad i branched out from the semi and when i get a better feel for it i will put it “on duty” somewhere in the house.
View attachment 95991686-6 Plus, 4” barrel and 7 round cylinder. I am happy with my purchase.
Click to expand...
Well done there Mike, can’t go wrong with a 686, congrats! Enjoy your new revolver…… now you do know once you buy one, you get addicted…..🤣
 
Hey @mikep!

I've really been eyeballing an S&W 686, 6" barrel, 7 shot, etc. I've got to save up a little more gig money so I'm looking forward to your further adventures. Please keep us informed. Congrats on your new revolver.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 
L frame s&W’s (586/686) are solid revikvers. I still have one that I ran as a duty gun years ago.

At Revolverfest last weekend I ran some rounds through the Lipseys 686 plus mountain and that is very slick. As well as the S&W bay a Model 19 no lock and 640 pro.

The thing with snub revolvers. They are not target guns they are carry guns.

That said the biggest mistake people make with snubs is they try and run 38 plus P defense ammo and that is more geared towards a 3-4” barrel gun as it needs the longer barre to get up to speed to expand and do what it does.

Snubs uiu get the blast but no benefit with most 38 defense ammo. And while those that just don’t know scoff at this The best defensive load and all around ammo tj shoot from snubs is basic full wadcutter target ammo. It shoots to the sights, is easy on the hamds and the full wadcutter doesn’t need speed it cuts a full diameter 38 cal hole in a sternum and gets to the goods.

I know a few detectives and officers with backup guns in the early 1990’s that have put down felons with that load. And the story is nationwide.

penitrarion and shot placement matter more than soeed and expansion
 

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ECS686 said:
That said the biggest mistake people make with snubs is they try and run 38 plus P defense ammo and that is more geared towards a 3-4” barrel gun as it needs the longer barre to get up to speed to expand and do what it does.

Snubs uiu get the blast but no benefit with most 38 defense ammo. And while those that just don’t know scoff at this The best defensive load and all around ammo tj shoot from snubs is basic full wadcutter target ammo. It shoots to the sights, is easy on the hamds and the full wadcutter doesn’t need speed it cuts a full diameter 38 cal hole in a sternum and gets to the goods.
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Not true at all. There are plenty JHP options in all common defensive calibers that do well out of shorter barrels. That might not have been the case decades ago, but it is now.

At defensive distances that snubs will be utilizes, I don't believe it matters whether one chooses JHP, wadcutters, etc.... They all have enough energy to penetrate and reach a vital. I personally prefer penetration above small increases in diameter, so I carry 158 +P Underwood hardcast. I still wouldn't be opposed to carrying wadcutters, HST, or bonded 38 +p round if the price was right and it shot well out of my gun.
 
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WellArmed said:
Not true at all. There are plenty JHP options in all common defensive calibers that do well out of shorter barrels. That might not have been the case decades ago, but it is now.
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There are only a couple rounds that reliably perform in gell out of snubs. And most folks in YouTube while well intentioned are basing their findings in 1 round, shoot a 5 rounds sample and hih will maybe get one round that performs out of a snub (and I have shot gel with Chuck Haggatd) are Golden Saber and the 135 Gold Dit.

The issue is you pay for it with blast and recoil. You get the same or better penetration and nice cut homes with standard 258 wadcutters that donut at 700 FPS either no recoil or blast.

And while penetration and shot placement matter more the JHP that don’t expand don’t do the damage a wadcutter does as the WC cuts and create a crunch cavity in expanded JHP don’t.

Why even when NYPD was restricted to solids in the revolver days the 158 SWC performed better than the 158 RNL rounds. Pat Rogers and many many others involved have reported that.

That said anyone can do whatever they want but lots of dead felons since the later 1960’s through now with WC loaded snubs
 
ECS686 said:
There are only a couple rounds that reliably perform in gell out of snubs. And most folks in YouTube while well intentioned are basing their findings in 1 round, shoot a 5 rounds sample and hih will maybe get one round that performs out of a snub (and I have shot gel with Chuck Haggatd) are Golden Saber and the 135 Gold Dit.

The issue is you pay for it with blast and recoil. You get the same or better penetration and nice cut homes with standard 258 wadcutters that donut at 700 FPS either no recoil or blast.

And while penetration and shot placement matter more the JHP that don’t expand don’t do the damage a wadcutter does as the WC cuts and create a crunch cavity in expanded JHP don’t.

Why even when NYPD was restricted to solids in the revolver days the 158 SWC performed better than the 158 RNL rounds. Pat Rogers and many many others involved have reported that.

That said anyone can do whatever they want but lots of dead felons since the later 1960’s through now with WC loaded snubs
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No, there are many examples on YouTube and done by members of other forums who aren't just firing one round. There are a handful of reliable and very manageable 38 +P currently on the market that expand reliably out of a 2" barrel.

While I will agree wadcutters are a good choice in Airweight and Airlite 12-14 oz snub-nosed revolvers for people who are recoil sensitive, I don't believe there's a blast or recoil issue when it comes to steel-framed snubbies, e.g., the S&W Model 60 and 640, Taurus 856, Kimber K6S, Colt Cobra, Diamondback SDR, and the like. It's definitely not an issue out of the 2.5"-2.75" S&W K, L, and N frames.

I don't necessarily completely disagree with some of the points you've made, but I guess I don't agree with the absolute assertion that you seem to have applied to all JHP ammo offerings that are being fired out of any sub-3" snub. I just believe what you claimed is only true contingent on the specific make/model of ammo and revolver being used.

ECS686 said:
Why even when NYPD was restricted to solids in the revolver days the 158 SWC performed better than the 158 RNL rounds. Pat Rogers and many many others involved have reported that.
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Because the type of ammo available today wasn't available then, maybe? Even the 9mm ammo being carried back in the day out of 4" barrels sucked compared to what is available today. Outside of that, many felons and criminals have been killed with a variety of bulletin calibers. Any bullet that can penetrate deep enough to puncture a vital can quickly incapacitate regardless of what type of bullet is used.
 
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WellArmed said:
No, there are many examples on YouTube and done by members of other forums who aren't just firing one round. There are a handful of reliable and very manageable 38 +P currently on the market that expand reliably out of a 2" barrel.

While I will agree wadcutters are a good choice in Airweight and Airlite 12-14 oz snub-nosed revolvers for people who are recoil sensitive, I don't believe there's a blast or recoil issue when it comes to steel-framed snubbies, e.g., the S&W Model 60 and 640, Taurus 856, Kimber K6S, Colt Cobra, Diamondback SDR, and the like. It's definitely not an issue out of the 2.5"-2.75" S&W K, L, and N frames.

I don't necessarily completely disagree with some of the points you've made, but I guess I don't agree with the absolute assertion that you seem to have applied to all JHP ammo offerings that are being fired out of any sub-3" snub. I just believe what you claimed is only true contingent on the specific make/model of ammo and revolver being used.


Because the type of ammo available today wasn't available then, maybe? Even the 9mm ammo being carried back in the day out of 4" barrels sucked compared to what is available today. Outside of that, many felons and criminals have been killed with a variety of bulletin calibers. Any bullet that can penetrate deep enough to puncture a vital can quickly incapacitate regardless of what type of bullet is used.
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We are not talking steel. The person posting the treated mentioned specifically the 637 which is an alloy frame exposed hammer version of the 442.

I am only seeing a coulle YouTube channels that do a 5 round test everyone else base their success or fail option on what one round does.
Lucky gun er has about the best 2 vs 4” 5 shot test around

And the time frame Pat Rogers mentioned the FBI load as well as the newer 125 SJHP were available however NYC leaders refused to allow expanding (sum sum as they called it)

NYPD didn’t even authorize Gold Dots for the 9mm until the late 2000’s. Have a friend (that I just attended revolverfest with) that is retired NYOD and had 4 shootings. He smoked 2 felons with a Glock 19 with standard 115 Winchester white box ball they issued at the time. He also smoked 2 others with 158 SWC out of a Colt detective Special off duty and a Model 10 on duty.

I have another friend (I also train with) in Indianapolis PD that lives 135 gold dot and used it to smoke a bad guy when his holster broke and the perp got his gun. (His video is also below)

Revolverfest is next year around September 10-13 lots of revokver folks that have seen the changes and what works better than others the last 60 years. Great time!

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ECS686 said:
We are not talking steel. The person posting the treated mentioned specifically the 637 which is an alloy frame exposed hammer version of the 442.
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But that's not what he purchased and your post didn't really differentiate between the two.

I don't own any non-steel frame revolvers, but I read from multiple sources that they can be snappy with +p. I agree with you that wadcutters, and stand 38 non JHP, maybe a great option in those revolvers, especially for those who are older or have physical disabilities. There's no argument there. I'm mostly referring to the assertion that all JHP ammo does not expand well and has lots of recoil and flash out of sub 3" barrels. That haven't been my or my young children's experience with my Taurus, Ruger, and S&W steel frame snubs from 2"-2.13" barrel.

ECS686 said:
I am only seeing a coulle YouTube channels that do a 5 round test everyone else base their success or fail option on what one round does.
Lucky gun er has about the best 2 vs 4” 5 shot test around
Click to expand...
I think, I maybe wrong, that's maybe because your an avid proponent and fan of a particular type of ammo, and you aren't paying attention or seeking out videos, forum post, and experience having to do with with types of ammo that you aren't interested in.

Lucky Gunner's testing isn't reliable and is worthless with regards to FBI standards outside of their velocity data because they use Clear Ballistics (CB). Their penetration and expansion data isn't useful in that respect, but even if you disagree, their testing shows that there are multiple options that penetrates and expands well. FBI standards are based on calibrated organic 10% gel that mimics flesh, and CB doesn't mimic that.

ECS686 said:
NYPD didn’t even authorize Gold Dots for the 9mm until the late 2000’s. Have a friend (that I just attended revolverfest with) that is retired NYOD and had 4 shootings. He smoked 2 felons with a Glock 19 with standard 115 Winchester white box ball they issued at the time. He also smoked 2 others with 158 SWC out of a Colt detective Special off duty and a Model 10 on duty.

I have another friend (I also train with) in Indianapolis PD that lives 135 gold dot and used it to smoke a bad guy when his holster broke and the perp got his gun. (His video is also below)
Click to expand...
Okay, but what do these anecdotals prove or disprove? There have been people killed with cheap ball range ammo too. Like I stated, anything that can reach a vital can kill. It's intermittent barriers, trajectory, recoil, expansion, and follow up shots that are usually the difference between different types of ammo. They all can stop a threat just the same if they can reach it.

There are good reliable JHP that can penetrate and expand reliably, that features flash retarded power, and does have much recoil that are good options for those who desire it.

The only time I, my children, women, or co-workers I've had fire my snubbies had any issues with flash was with 357 mag. All had absolutely no problems firing my LCR, Taurus 85, or 686+ 2.5" with +p 38. I don't even recall seeing much of a flash or there being much recoil.
 
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ECS686 said:
L frame s&W’s (586/686) are solid revikvers. I still have one that I ran as a duty gun years ago.

At Revolverfest last weekend I ran some rounds through the Lipseys 686 plus mountain and that is very slick. As well as the S&W bay a Model 19 no lock and 640 pro.

The thing with snub revolvers. They are not target guns they are carry guns.

That said the biggest mistake people make with snubs is they try and run 38 plus P defense ammo and that is more geared towards a 3-4” barrel gun as it needs the longer barre to get up to speed to expand and do what it does.

Snubs uiu get the blast but no benefit with most 38 defense ammo. And while those that just don’t know scoff at this The best defensive load and all around ammo tj shoot from snubs is basic full wadcutter target ammo. It shoots to the sights, is easy on the hamds and the full wadcutter doesn’t need speed it cuts a full diameter 38 cal hole in a sternum and gets to the goods.

I know a few detectives and officers with backup guns in the early 1990’s that have put down felons with that load. And the story is nationwide.

penitrarion and shot placement matter more than soeed and expansion
Click to expand...
A lot of warm/hot loads in a stubby throw a huge flash-that’s telling you a lot of unburned power is igniting After leaving the tube-which doesn’t do anything but “strum und drang”😏
 
WellArmed said:
But that's not what he purchased and your post didn't really differentiate between the two.

I don't own any non-steel frame revolvers, but I read from multiple sources that they can be snappy with +p. I agree with you that wadcutters, and stand 38 non JHP, maybe a great option in those revolvers, especially for those who are older or have physical disabilities. There's no argument there. I'm mostly referring to the assertion that all JHP ammo does not expand well and has lots of recoil and flash out of sub 3" barrels. That haven't been my or my young children's experience with my Taurus, Ruger, and S&W steel frame snubs from 2"-2.13" barrel.


I think, I maybe wrong, that's maybe because your an avid proponent and fan of a particular type of ammo, and you aren't paying attention or seeking out videos, forum post, and experience having to do with with types of ammo that you aren't interested in.

Lucky Gunner's testing isn't reliable and is worthless with regards to FBI standards outside of their velocity data because they use Clear Ballistics (CB). Their penetration and expansion data isn't useful in that respect, but even if you disagree, their testing shows that there are multiple options that penetrates and expands well. FBI standards are based on calibrated organic 10% gel that mimics flesh, and CB doesn't mimic that.


Okay, but what do these anecdotals prove or disprove? There have been people killed with cheap ball range ammo too. Like I stated, anything that can reach a vital can kill. It's intermittent barriers, trajectory, recoil, expansion, and follow up shots that are usually the difference between different types of ammo. They all can stop a threat just the same if they can reach it.

There are good reliable JHP that can penetrate and expand reliably, that features flash retarded power, and does have much recoil that are good options for those who desire it.

The only time I, my children, women, or co-workers I've had fire my snubbies had any issues with flash was with 357 mag. All had absolutely no problems firing my LCR, Taurus 85, or 686+ 2.5" with +p 38. I don't even recall seeing much of a flash or there being much recoil.
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Thanks for having a respectful conversation.

No matter what camp you favor shot placement trumps everything.

As far as bullet performance I am not basing my thoughts on any thoery I am basing it on the aftermath of real shootings I have seen, or survivor cops I have talked to.
Mi (believe it or not) through Rangemaster (I am an Advanve instructor) am friends with and AI’d with John Hearne, am friends with and train with Darryle Bolke, Bryan Eastridge, Wayne Dobbs, Chuck Haggard and many others that are pillars in the professional community. And converse frequently with them and rangemaster dirums. I also have access to some local PD after action reports and some autopsy findings (some I have used in my own class lectures where relevent)

Hearn had a great section where Jim Cirillo and cre **** 11 rounds of 158 LRN into a Robbers face all 11 rounds (5 from a J frame and 6 from a model 10 and they were ran dry) all striking home and he dropped. At that point they didn’t have radios and were calling in they killed a B/M about 20 years old and they hear a cough and the robber quips “I’m 26” point being thwre are several cases of RNL bouncing off or deflecting off bone.

My friend from IPD in the other hand loved Gold Dot in his snub band rightfully so it saved his bacon. He also (this was his 4th shooting) has mentioned like deer hunting uiu don’t feel recoil.

My point originally is the plus p defensive stuff more times than not so not perform as well from 1.8-2” snubs as a 3-4” and there are ole Ty of examples. And as the other member mentioned you have a lot of flash and or I burnt powder coming out of snubs with some of the ammo. Even flash retardant powder hih have I burnt powder everywhere.

Does that mean your underserved no not all the time as Chuck Haggard has pointed out he observes with ball it usually yaws and creates a temp stretch/crush cavity just not as dynamic as an expanding JHP does (provided the JHP does what it’s supposed to do)

I was a young g USAF troop carrying a Midel 15 with PGU Ball and was in whem Vietnam Vets ran everything. My Flight Chief actually had a Viet Cong infiltrator he put down with one round or the super weak M41 38 ball ammo. He stated if you out the front sight above the nipples just wear the clavicles meet they go down. Fast forward today and any agency worth anything has moved the scoring X rings there!

So yes shot Placement and penetration trump everything else

So while the older outdated practice of running 38’s for teainjng and qual then 357 for duty like they did for duty guns could apply on J frames but with 38 wadcutters for practice and say a Gold Dot or the one or 2 that do work better than others your not going to want to run 50 rounds through on a practice session.

Again respectfully and I’m enjoying the different viewpoints. All good stuff!
 
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