Saint AR15
- Thread starter TonyVan
- Start date
HansGruber
Ronin
Bingo.
KillerFord1977
SAINT
KillerFord1977
SAINT
Now, if you just want a different look, then yes, you can remove it all.
tons of youtube videos on front post, handguard and gas block removal and replace with new parts.
you will have to replace the gas block, and other related parts. Normally need a new railed hand guard of your choice to be able to mount the flip up sights and other desired accessories.
tons of youtube videos on front post, handguard and gas block removal and replace with new parts.
you will have to replace the gas block, and other related parts. Normally need a new railed hand guard of your choice to be able to mount the flip up sights and other desired accessories.
HansGruber
Ronin
This is a Sig Sierra 2.5-8x32mm scope with a fixed FSP; my rifle.
At 4x or better magnification, you can't see the FSP at all; at 2.5x, it's barely visible.
TEXASforLIFE
Ronin
With a 2x between the irons it will magnify nicely. I have a $35 optic that's somewhat useless except for magnifying the iron. I don't even turn on the dot.
Just for curiosity, what $35. optic did you go with..
TEXASforLIFE
Ronin
So, if I understand what you’re saying.. it not only magnifies the front post, but also a good visual down range. I only ask these dumb questions because with my old eyes, I can always use a little help..
TEXASforLIFE
Ronin
It's placed between the iron sights, but closer to the rear sight. It will magnify down range and the front sight. I've only looked out to 100 yards, but sure it will be good for further. If you put the rear sight in front of the 2x it will probably distort the sight picture or make the front sight fade some depending on your eyes? I found this out by accident as for intended use for both were going to be indepently used. You might need to adjust the 2x closer or further to and from the rear sight for best clarity? This way the front post will not be larger than the arperture which will affect how far and what you can see.
That’s what I was thinking, if you placed a magnifier just ahead of the rear sight… A 1x or 2x should give you some ok visuals, including the front sight post, from 50 to 100 yards.. and I’m not looking to stretch it out any further on this set up.. I appreciate the info !!
@TonyVan , as the others have written, what you may see through the optic - i.e. the "interference" you wrote of and are concerned about - is dependent in large part on the particular optic you use.
With low-powered variable optics (LPVOs - aka adjustable magnification "scopes") as cited and pictured by @Talyn and @HansGruber, respectively, the way the optics of the optic
works effectively "ghosts" and then completely eliminates the obstruction that your FSB poses, even though when you look at the gun from the side, you see that the FSB is in the line of the optic (@HansGruber 's picture demonstrates this very nicely).
With a non-magnified "traditional" red-dot (to make things easy, I will include both the "reflex" and "holographic" sights in this group) at either absolute or lower-1/3 co-witness, when you drop your line-of-sight down to the plane of your iron sights and look through your RDS "red-dot sight", your FSB will remain fully visible just as though you did not have the red-dot in place at all. For shooters with astigmatism, this setup of (eye)-(rear sight)-(RDS)-(front sight) is often helpful to effect more precise shots as the rear sight aperture helps (via optical principles) to suppress the "fuzzing/distortion" of the dot that shooters with astigmatism often see, when simply directly visualizing the aiming dot. At-distance, if the dot chosen is refined enough -i.e. a "one MOA dot"- and the shooter was diligent (and capable, in terms of how well he/she sees) enough to have very carefully sighted-in and co-witnessed that dot, this kind of setup could potentially even help further refine the iron-sight picture, as the front post width typically brings a level of uncertainty into the mix.
With a prismatic red-dot, instead of a "projected" reticle such as those seen on "traditional" RDS, the reticle is etched into the glass of the optic in the same manner that the reticle is etched into the glass of "scopes." This means these markings will remain sharp even for those shooters with astigmatism. However, there are compromises. While the reticle can be clearly seen even by those with astigmatism, it takes more battery power to illuminate these markings (leading to shorter battery life) and typically only the better makes/models offer true "daylight bright" illumination (but it can be argued that this isn't totally necessary, as the etched markings will remain visible even in the brightest sunlight). And unlike the relative freedom traditional RDS bring to the sight picture, the prismatic sight has eye box and eye-relief concerns (while this makes the sight less forgiving to use when shooting from compromised positions, the way these factors force head/eye alignment behind the optic also makes the system less prone to parallax, which, despite the "zero parallax" claims of many "traditional" RDS, still remains an issue. Finally, because of the prismatic optics, even though the FSB may align with the optical axis of the sight, it will not resolve with sufficient clarity to "co-witness." Further, depending on your definition of "interference," @TonyVan , the residual "shadow" that the FBS casts into the sight package may or may not be acceptable to you.
Overall, @TonyVan and @MagaTex , if you can accept the expense of the LPVO, my recommendation is to go this route. The reason is not only because it makes the FSB a non-issue as you increase magnification for longer-distance shots, it also makes every bit of "seeing the target" just that much easier for those of us with vision issues or are simply getting older. While the LPVO itself doesn't necessarily have to break the bank, the addition of a good mount will typically add somewhere in the neighborhood of at least $100 to the budget (unless you pursue traditional two-piece scope mounts).
Weight/bulk wise, the modern LPVO and mount base will be no worse off versus the addition of a magnifier behind the traditional RDS (magnifiers are not optically compatible with prismatic sights), and in many cases, the addition of a magnifier to a traditional RDS pushes the cost to-parity with comparable-quality LPVOs, and this is even more the case when the magnifier is paired with a "flip-to-side" base that swings the magnifier out of the way when the shooter desires 1x view through the RDS.
If a shooter has astigmatism, another good choice is the prismatic, however, one needs to realize that in-use, even the "1x
prismatic won't be the same as a traditional RDS. Similarly, although the weight and bulk compromise will favor the prismatic versus the LPVO, the prismatic is a fixed magnification system.
In terms of viewing a magnified front sight through a magnified prismatic or even a traditional RDS's magnifier, remember that there will be a noticeable visual degradation of the "crispness" of the front sight's visual appearance. Additionally, even if not visually distorted, the front blade will "magnify" in proportion with target/sight picture, and thus may not offer much visual advantage.
Finally -and I often find myself shying away from saying this, because we all work hard for our money, and most of us have limited budgets- buy the best that you can.
Nowhere else will it be as immediately obvious to you how every penny you've spent translates to quality. Edge distortion, clarity, color shift, fisheye, etc. - particularly for those of us who are specifically looking at using optics in order to offset our vision shortcomings due to disease and/or age, if we're already looking to overcome issues to begin with, it makes sense to try to minimize any further shortcomings as much as possible.
Luckily, a lot of good choices are available these days, and shooters should also look at the secondary market for used items, as many previous-generation optics offer exceptional value.
With low-powered variable optics (LPVOs - aka adjustable magnification "scopes") as cited and pictured by @Talyn and @HansGruber, respectively, the way the optics of the optic
works effectively "ghosts" and then completely eliminates the obstruction that your FSB poses, even though when you look at the gun from the side, you see that the FSB is in the line of the optic (@HansGruber 's picture demonstrates this very nicely). With a non-magnified "traditional" red-dot (to make things easy, I will include both the "reflex" and "holographic" sights in this group) at either absolute or lower-1/3 co-witness, when you drop your line-of-sight down to the plane of your iron sights and look through your RDS "red-dot sight", your FSB will remain fully visible just as though you did not have the red-dot in place at all. For shooters with astigmatism, this setup of (eye)-(rear sight)-(RDS)-(front sight) is often helpful to effect more precise shots as the rear sight aperture helps (via optical principles) to suppress the "fuzzing/distortion" of the dot that shooters with astigmatism often see, when simply directly visualizing the aiming dot. At-distance, if the dot chosen is refined enough -i.e. a "one MOA dot"- and the shooter was diligent (and capable, in terms of how well he/she sees) enough to have very carefully sighted-in and co-witnessed that dot, this kind of setup could potentially even help further refine the iron-sight picture, as the front post width typically brings a level of uncertainty into the mix.
With a prismatic red-dot, instead of a "projected" reticle such as those seen on "traditional" RDS, the reticle is etched into the glass of the optic in the same manner that the reticle is etched into the glass of "scopes." This means these markings will remain sharp even for those shooters with astigmatism. However, there are compromises. While the reticle can be clearly seen even by those with astigmatism, it takes more battery power to illuminate these markings (leading to shorter battery life) and typically only the better makes/models offer true "daylight bright" illumination (but it can be argued that this isn't totally necessary, as the etched markings will remain visible even in the brightest sunlight). And unlike the relative freedom traditional RDS bring to the sight picture, the prismatic sight has eye box and eye-relief concerns (while this makes the sight less forgiving to use when shooting from compromised positions, the way these factors force head/eye alignment behind the optic also makes the system less prone to parallax, which, despite the "zero parallax" claims of many "traditional" RDS, still remains an issue. Finally, because of the prismatic optics, even though the FSB may align with the optical axis of the sight, it will not resolve with sufficient clarity to "co-witness." Further, depending on your definition of "interference," @TonyVan , the residual "shadow" that the FBS casts into the sight package may or may not be acceptable to you.
Overall, @TonyVan and @MagaTex , if you can accept the expense of the LPVO, my recommendation is to go this route. The reason is not only because it makes the FSB a non-issue as you increase magnification for longer-distance shots, it also makes every bit of "seeing the target" just that much easier for those of us with vision issues or are simply getting older. While the LPVO itself doesn't necessarily have to break the bank, the addition of a good mount will typically add somewhere in the neighborhood of at least $100 to the budget (unless you pursue traditional two-piece scope mounts).
Weight/bulk wise, the modern LPVO and mount base will be no worse off versus the addition of a magnifier behind the traditional RDS (magnifiers are not optically compatible with prismatic sights), and in many cases, the addition of a magnifier to a traditional RDS pushes the cost to-parity with comparable-quality LPVOs, and this is even more the case when the magnifier is paired with a "flip-to-side" base that swings the magnifier out of the way when the shooter desires 1x view through the RDS.
If a shooter has astigmatism, another good choice is the prismatic, however, one needs to realize that in-use, even the "1x
prismatic won't be the same as a traditional RDS. Similarly, although the weight and bulk compromise will favor the prismatic versus the LPVO, the prismatic is a fixed magnification system.
In terms of viewing a magnified front sight through a magnified prismatic or even a traditional RDS's magnifier, remember that there will be a noticeable visual degradation of the "crispness" of the front sight's visual appearance. Additionally, even if not visually distorted, the front blade will "magnify" in proportion with target/sight picture, and thus may not offer much visual advantage.
Finally -and I often find myself shying away from saying this, because we all work hard for our money, and most of us have limited budgets- buy the best that you can.
Nowhere else will it be as immediately obvious to you how every penny you've spent translates to quality. Edge distortion, clarity, color shift, fisheye, etc. - particularly for those of us who are specifically looking at using optics in order to offset our vision shortcomings due to disease and/or age, if we're already looking to overcome issues to begin with, it makes sense to try to minimize any further shortcomings as much as possible.
Luckily, a lot of good choices are available these days, and shooters should also look at the secondary market for used items, as many previous-generation optics offer exceptional value.
TEXASforLIFE
Ronin
The choices might be almost limitless, but your eyes can prove your limits. LPVO can also limit you sight picture less than an unmagnified holographic, but then the target at further distance gets covered up by most dots. Being able to keep both eyes open while shooting gives anyone the better picture. Some eye training may be needed? Until your behind the optic then you'll know what's best for you, but you have read several insights here on this thread. At minimum power of course will give the most fov. 1x (4,6,8,or10) with good eye relief can help for both eyes open shooting/targeting/tracking. Lots of good info posted in this thread..
^ Absolutely.
^ This is an excellent point - and blends well into your conclusion, in-particular. How much a shooter gets "sucked through the tube" is always a worry: tunnel-vision is a problem, regardless of one's shooting discipline, be it defense/duty, hunting, competition, or just for recreational pleasure.
^ I absolutely believe that training one's eye how to see - and to adjust one's body (as well as to obtain equipment that fits one's body) as one ages or accumulates injuries - on a continual basis is necessary for optimal performance.
And indeed, a lot of such training like teaching one's eyes to "blow through" the unmagnified RDS to obtain the proper target focus as well as, for example, making sure that one's dominant eye is properly aligned behind the axis of the optic are necessary to extract maximum performance.
For example, when LPVOs first came onto the "tactical" scene some 10 years ago, there was a lot of resistance from the "CQB" crowd, who maintained that the LPVO's traditional optical setup meant that the shooter would be slower to engage closer targets, despite this not being seen with competitive shooters. Since then, we've seen top-tier trainers repeatedly bring down this outdated dogma, such as with this Practically Tactical / Steve Fisher (Sentinel Concepts) video.
Definitely.
At-minimum, the ability to mount the optic on a "Blue Gun" or the like while in the showroom allows for at least some "eye time." But with artificial lighting conditions and the limitations of distances at most retailers, it make for a more detailed assessment sadly almost impossible, "at the table."
I always encourage shooters shopping for optics to take advantage of any social situation to get their eyes behind the gun/optic. Don't be shy to talk to your fellow shooters at the range, competitions, or training classes! Since we all see just a little differently from one another, getting your eyeballs behind the sight while it's mounted on-gun, in more typical lighting conditions and surroundings....that's really the way to shop!