Second Amendment: Understanding The Militia Clause

[Talyn]

When Americans debate the Second Amendment, most of the focus tends to center around the individual right to keep and bear arms. This emphasis, especially in post-Heller and McDonald jurisprudence, is both understandable and historically justified.

However, a recurring error—committed even by Second Amendment advocates—is to treat the “militia clause” as a relic or a throwaway preamble. This oversight is more than a mere historical misstep; it’s a strategic blunder that endangers the very right these advocates claim to protect.

The Second Amendment: Understanding The Militia Clause

While the Second Amendment guarantees our right to keep and bear arms, we can't forget about the importance of the militia clause.

gundigest.com

 

[The Night Rider]

The biggest problem that I have with this article is it keeps dismissing the militia like it's not something that exists anymore.

Alaska has an Active State Militia that participated in the Battles of Attu and Dutch Harbour.
California, Connecticut, Georgia, Indiana, Maryland, New York, Ohio, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, and Virginia all have active state militias that are answerable only to the state and Texas for sure cannot be federalised.

 

[Certified Silly Goose]

The biggest problem that I have with this article is it keeps dismissing the militia like it's not something that exists anymore.

It's simple; if you're willing to take up arms to defend yourself, your family, your neighborhood... you ARE the militia.

 

[The Night Rider]

It's simple; if you're willing to take up arms to defend yourself, your family, your neighborhood... you ARE the militia.

I mean, No.

 

[Certified Silly Goose]

I mean, No

Richard Henry Lee would disagree. Apologies, but, "yes"...

"Militias, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves and include all men capable of bearing arms. [...] To preserve liberty it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."

 

[The Night Rider]

Richard Henry Lee would disagree. Apologies, but, "yes"...

"Militias, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves and include all men capable of bearing arms. [...] To preserve liberty it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."

Keywords there "When properly formed."

I'm a firm believer that if it can be issued to an 11 Bravo I should be able to buy it at Walmart.

But a gaggle of citizens with guns does not a Militia make.

In order to be a militia, an effective militia. You need to meet together and train together. You need to have a chain of command and you need to have discipline.

It's almost axiomatic that when militia troops go up against regulars they get their ass handed to them.

 

[Shibadog]

I frankly wish the founders had left out the “Militia” phrase and just stated “The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed”.

 

[Certified Silly Goose]

I frankly wish the founders had left out the “Militia” phrase and just stated “The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed”.

At the time, the militia was all able-bodied persons willing to take up arms and defend the land. Militia does not mean today what it meant back then, thanks to lefty education.

 

[Hertervillian]

thanks to lefty education.

I don’t believe for a minute that was an accident either.

 

[SL66]

Keywords there "When properly formed."

I'm a firm believer that if it can be issued to an 11 Bravo I should be able to buy it at Walmart.

But a gaggle of citizens with guns does not a Militia make.

In order to be a militia, an effective militia. You need to meet together and train together. You need to have a chain of command and you need to have discipline.

It's almost axiomatic that when militia troops go up against regulars they get their ass handed to them.

Let me guess where you see yourself in that "chain of command". While I do understand your point of view, I would most likely wish you well and go about my business.

 

[The Night Rider]

Let me guess where you see yourself in that "chain of command".

Based on what you said below I'm going to say you guessed wrong

While I do understand your point of view, I would most likely wish you well and go about my business.

So if you go back and look at my first post it talks about some states that actually have organized state militias. Not National Guard. In a couple of them you can't be in both the state militia and the National Guard.

Just like the National Guard they have people that are what they call AGR. I mean they probably call it something else because AGR is active guard but they have people who are in the State Militia and that's what they do for a living every single day.

Generally speaking, those are the people who are in the leadership roles.

And they have people that are very similar to the National Guard or Army Reserve they show up one weekend a month they train and drill with the militia and they go back to their regular lives.

 

[Certified Silly Goose]

Based on what you said below I'm going to say you guessed wrong

So if you go back and look at my first post it talks about some states that actually have organized state militias. Not National Guard. In a couple of them you can't be in both the state militia and the National Guard.

Just like the National Guard they have people that are what they call AGR. I mean they probably call it something else because AGR is active guard but they have people who are in the State Militia and that's what they do for a living every single day.

Generally speaking, those are the people who are in the leadership roles.

And they have people that are very similar to the National Guard or Army Reserve they show up one weekend a month they train and drill with the militia and they go back to their regular lives.

Just because those organizations exist doesn't mean they get to define what "militia" means according to our founding fathers.

There's no acceptance letter in the militia. The militia is the armed public. Get together with a few of your neighbors for regular range time and a congrats, you're a militia.

National guard is (like you said) totally different. That was formed by an act of Congress over a hundred years after the second was ratified.

Our founding fathers knew what they were doing when they wrote the amendment, however perverted the left try to make it today.

The armed citizenry is Americas last line of defense. Should we regulate? Yes. That's why ranges and gun clubs and associations exisit. To keep us sharp and informed. It doesn't mean march around the woods in camp saluting each other.

 

[Bassbob]

I can tell you from experience, assuming that military and ex military personnel are generally more able and effective than regular old dudes who grew up with guns and train with them without the benefit of government involvement is less than accurate. Those guys are probably better at taking orders, but I’d estimate maybe 5-10% of them at best are better at shooting, performing violence without hesitation, gun handling and maintenance, critical thinking, threat assessment or formulating a plan of action. Particularly when you’re talking about some sort of domestic action that may or may not involve engaging against government forces.

I mean I understand that most of the guys here were “ real operators”, but the vast majority of military and ex military under the age of 70 probably came out of the service disadvantaged due to short sighted government policies that encompassed most of their military training. They ain’t all Navy Seals. I routinely service weapons for more than one friend who is ex military. And in one case I have “ Trained” an ex Army vet who was deployed in a combat zone in Afghanistan on basic tenants of the use of a carbine. I am fortunate to also get some time training with guys who actually do know what they’re doing, but much more often the ex military and LEO guys I shoot with are no better equipped or prepared than I am.

 

[Certified Silly Goose]

I can tell you from experience, assuming that military and ex military personnel are generally more able and effective than regular old dudes who grew up with guns and train with them without the benefit of government involvement is less than accurate. Those guys are probably better at taking orders, but I’d estimate maybe 5-10% of them at best are better at shooting, performing violence without hesitation, gun handling and maintenance, critical thinking, threat assessment or formulating a plan of action. Particularly when you’re talking about some sort of domestic action that may or may not involve engaging against government forces.

I mean I understand that most of the guys here were “ real operators”, but the vast majority of military and ex military under the age of 70 probably came out of the service disadvantaged due to short sighted government policies that encompassed most of their military training. They ain’t all Navy Seals. I routinely service weapons for more than one friend who is ex military. And in one case I have “ Trained” an ex Army vet who was deployed in a combat zone in Afghanistan on basic tenants of the use of a carbine. I am fortunate to also get some time training with guys who actually do know what they’re doing, but much more often the ex military and LEO guys I shoot with are no better equipped or prepared than I am.

Maybe its just my area, but a lot of cops that I'm friends with are horrible shots. One cop I know only takes his gun out of its holster on qual day. I'm surprised I didn't find a family of squirrels living in the barrel when I finally dragged him (kicking and screaming) to the range. It was disgusting. More dust and dirt in that holster than a junkyard.

 

[Cedric]

I can tell you from experience, assuming that military and ex military personnel are generally more able and effective than regular old dudes who grew up with guns and train with them without the benefit of government involvement is less than accurate. Those guys are probably better at taking orders, but I’d estimate maybe 5-10% of them at best are better at shooting, performing violence without hesitation, gun handling and maintenance, critical thinking, threat assessment or formulating a plan of action. Particularly when you’re talking about some sort of domestic action that may or may not involve engaging against government forces.

I mean I understand that most of the guys here were “ real operators”, but the vast majority of military and ex military under the age of 70 probably came out of the service disadvantaged due to short sighted government policies that encompassed most of their military training. They ain’t all Navy Seals. I routinely service weapons for more than one friend who is ex military. And in one case I have “ Trained” an ex Army vet who was deployed in a combat zone in Afghanistan on basic tenants of the use of a carbine. I am fortunate to also get some time training with guys who actually do know what they’re doing, but much more often the ex military and LEO guys I shoot with are no better equipped or prepared than I am.

I agree, but I would up your percentage to about 25%. Of course my experience is dated and being ex-combat arms we generally were pretty proficient. However, service support units did their annual qualification and the higher yo got up the support chain the fewer skills they had. Once the drawdown after the Gulf War was in full swing it became more pronounced. Deployment to Bosnia was an eye opener. Soldiers were having safety violations in increasing numbers because they weren't spending enough time with their firearms. My time on a civilian range was interesting, too. Example, people misinterpret the term SF or Special Forces to mean soldiers who wear the Green Beret. Many are in the supporting establishment; not true snake eaters. I ran into a couple of these "SF" guys on the range and they didn't know poop from shinola. Problem is these wanna be's can make things dangerous real quick. Don't assume anything concerning ex-military.

 

[bc22wm]

I understand that most of the guys here were “ real operators”,

It sure seems that way don't it?

 

[Bassbob]

It sure seems that way don't it?

Of all the guys I shoot with, the vast majority are military or LEO retired and active duty. Out of maybe 25 guys I see regularly 2 of them were actual SF guys and another 5 or 6 are guys to be taken very seriously. The rest are no better and in many cases much worse than me. And I ain’t shite.

 

[The Night Rider]