The Night Rider
Hellcat
Leaning Trees?I think the solution is to have “leaning trees” installed at every indoor range.
Shooting Skills? I Don't Think So.
- Thread starter Oaktree45
- Start date
The Night Rider
Hellcat
Because no one ever taught them the proper way to shoot.
What I'm about to say is not directed specifically to the poster I quoted.
A lot of people in America grew up in homes where there were no guns or I'm not sure how to say this, there were guns but they were de-emphasized maybe is the right word.
I've mentioned this before my grandfather had an old glass fronted gun case with five or six shotguns and rifles in it.
It sat in his basement my entire life until I was 16 or 17 years old and then his son, my uncle, came and got it and moved it to his house.
That was the only time I ever saw those guns come out of the cabinet.
The very first time I fired a gun was at boy scout camp and I was 9 or 10. I remember we had safety training (which is obviously a good thing) but I don't remember any Marksmanship training.
I never had any actual firearms training until I went to BRM during Basic Training and really, those of you who were in the service know this, it wasn't "Marksmanship" training, it was hit the silhouette training
Didn't matter where you hit that thing as long as you hit it, it counted as a hit.
So, my point is that I would bet that 90% of the people carrying guns in America today were never properly taught how to shoot a firearm.
I want to say instead of mocking them we should be teaching them but the real truth is that if you walk up to somebody on firing range and offer to give them pointers are going to tell you to screw off.
Last edited:
Belt Fed
SAINT
You just had to been there.
HayesGreener
Ronin
And sell shot targets!
PieterCoetzee
Custom
Marx said we sow the seeds of our own destruction; so Im OK when some people cant shoot
The Night Rider
Hellcat
This is another part of my really long story.
When I was assigned to 3rd Battalion 11th field artillery at Fort Lewis we were on orders to go to Saudi Arabia.
Our Battalion Commander was a combat veteran of Vietnam and since we had time he arranged for us to be trained by members of the Army Marksmanship Unit on Fort Lewis (The AMU was where Julie Golob spent the majority of her time in the Army).
Anyway these guys spent three or four days teaching the LEM and our NCOs Proper Marksmanship.
When they were done our NCOs marched us to the rifle range, where they proceeded to Ignore everything we had been taught in the last 4 days and ran us through a qualification.
Not surprisingly most of the unit failed it.
NGL I never qualified expert with an M16 in the army but after that block of instruction I pretty consistently qualified first class where I had been qualifying Marksman previously.
When I was assigned to 3rd Battalion 11th field artillery at Fort Lewis we were on orders to go to Saudi Arabia.
Our Battalion Commander was a combat veteran of Vietnam and since we had time he arranged for us to be trained by members of the Army Marksmanship Unit on Fort Lewis (The AMU was where Julie Golob spent the majority of her time in the Army).
Anyway these guys spent three or four days teaching the LEM and our NCOs Proper Marksmanship.
When they were done our NCOs marched us to the rifle range, where they proceeded to Ignore everything we had been taught in the last 4 days and ran us through a qualification.
Not surprisingly most of the unit failed it.
NGL I never qualified expert with an M16 in the army but after that block of instruction I pretty consistently qualified first class where I had been qualifying Marksman previously.
PieterCoetzee
Custom
I used to hang out with some guys from the AMU at Ft Meade. They were good guys and could really shoot; but I never wanted one on any combat patrol....its the difference between Olympic shooting when strapped into a coat with blinders on your shooting glasses at a fixed target at a known range in good light AND the SP4 who just got an Article 15 for pissing off the Company Commander; but still runs through incoming fire to drag the COs butt to cover then shoots the enemy and smiles a huge grin at the CO
Old_Me
Emissary
almost any public range, even private ranges and clubs "offer" some sort of training for the asking.....and of course a nominal fee.....many times, its pretty much the men that tell you to f-off, the women are not hung up on the egotistical BS.
many real men take advice, help, suggestions, i know this to be true from the range i go to.
the "fake men", no not any "trans man" think thier poop don't stink, or they just "know it all, cuz thier men"....
in sex ID only, but if they only had a brain, and lost the egotistical attitude.
Last edited:
I agree with your comments completely, but mostly the last one. We have a good group of RSOs at the range I volunteer at. Lots of shooting experience, and willing to give advice to anyone who is willing to receive it. But as you said, many are not willing to receive it.
We get a lot of kids there, some of which I'm not sure should legally be holding a firearm. We aren't a law enforcement unit though so we just let it go. But I see so many of them who appear to have gotten 100% of their firearms training from television or video games that it makes me sick. They are shooting full-size silhouette targets at 5 yards AND MISSING! How can you do that? The muzzle is damn near touching the target until they yank the target into the next county. We offer them advice and get it thrown back in our faces, usually with "I know how to shoot, it's this damn gun!"
Or they are shooting mag dumps with an AR-15 or AK-47 at 15 yards and are happy if one round out of three is somewhere on the target. Recently we are seeing a lot of AR-15s come into the range without any kind of sights on them. I guess the manufacturers feel that since they will likely be replace with a red dot or optical scope there is no point in including them, but these kids don't even notice until we point it out to them.
It's a sad state but I do agree 100% with your comments. I just don't know what to do about it despite trying.
HayesGreener
Ronin
Having trained many novices over the years, I have been consistently disappointed in the lack of basic knowledge and skills with firearms. Even some folks who have spent 4 years in the military often have never fired a pistol. Although I think the move to dual arming should clear that up.
First off, we need stringent enforcement of range safety rules. There is no room for thug wannabes or immature kids doing mag dumps on a civilized shoting range. If management allows such antics we need to have a serious chat with management.
Like many here I grew up with firearms, shooting, and hunting. I remember basic training where I was astounded that many of my fellow trainees had never fired a gun. I saw a similar situation with agent trainees and police recruits. I have worked with many recruits who developed into fine shooters but that takes time and patience. Many just had no one to show them the way before. That's where we as experienced shooters and instructors can step up and offer advice. Some folks are glad to get it, some would be offended. You can only help the ones who want it. But we are all better off if others with firearms get at least some rudimentary training.
First off, we need stringent enforcement of range safety rules. There is no room for thug wannabes or immature kids doing mag dumps on a civilized shoting range. If management allows such antics we need to have a serious chat with management.
Like many here I grew up with firearms, shooting, and hunting. I remember basic training where I was astounded that many of my fellow trainees had never fired a gun. I saw a similar situation with agent trainees and police recruits. I have worked with many recruits who developed into fine shooters but that takes time and patience. Many just had no one to show them the way before. That's where we as experienced shooters and instructors can step up and offer advice. Some folks are glad to get it, some would be offended. You can only help the ones who want it. But we are all better off if others with firearms get at least some rudimentary training.
PieterCoetzee
Custom
When I started as an MP in 1980 everybody had shooting experience. When I started as a cop out of a class of 60 recruits 55 had shooting experience. The last academy class before I retired had TWO that had actually held a gun ...... but there were plenty of Xbox shooters
Belt Fed
SAINT
Same here
The Night Rider
Hellcat
I was in the Army and Colorado National Guard for 15 years. I never once fired a handgun as part of my military training.
How dare you! Per Greta!
I was the Range Officer at USMCAS Yuma, 1970-71. Mind you this was with the Wing. Found out one of my NCOs was scoring targets a bit different. He was taking bribes to make sure the Airedale’s passed.
Annihilator
Hellion
Years ago when I first got my CCW, I took the class at the FOP lodge, 2 deputies taught the class then. When we went to do the shooting part, a friend of my brother, Allen, he shot at the target and you talk about a group, 6” or better, but they passed him cause he was close friends with one deputy’s, but when I shot, the sgt said you need more practice, I then told him, look at the target better, the other deputy said your deputies need to shoot like that if a civilian can, 10 shots in less the 2” at 25 yards, but yet they passed Allen who couldn’t hit the broadside of a barn if he was standing inside it.