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Sig 320 discharges

Lots of arguments however it doesn’t matter which side of the fence the industry has spoken and the 320 is being dropped by countless LE agencies and is banned from several states LE academy’s, IDPA, Gunsite and Rangemastwr classes as well as several others.

But meanwhile Sig 320 fans be like
 

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KillerFord1977 said:
You mistake that for the Dems
Click to expand...

I am involved in the training industry and thwre are skne 320 fans that have invested their ego in that platform and are prepared to die in that hill.

A state forum I am on there are some outright denial on not just if guns go off but that thwre is a rift when as of now you can’t use a 320 at a large number of venues.

The latest was a range in Heah however they are hosting a USPSA championship sponsored by Sig (ironic) the range banned 320’s but have a waiver for that match due to Sig sponsor and USPSA itself has not banned the 320 and being a sanctions championship

I had a 320 X5 legion about 5 years and it shot great but didn’t do anything for me that my others did so I sold it and got a Springfield Operator

There are more Glock and M&Ps in LE holsters and thwre is no issue (or video) of yjen going off with hamds nowhere around the gun kine has been produced and had witnessed with 320 that happen
(And for the smooth brains that want to quip “Glock leg” that was an actual training issue that happened with the gun in the shooter's hand nit at rest in a holster.)

The facts are something other than user error is happening to Sig 320’s specifically but rabid fans argue “mine never have given me an issue (like with Serpa holsters)

Well my Grandma lived to be 99 and smoked a pack a day and that doesn’t negate the fact a lot of other in her shoes didn’t make 99 from cancers related to smoking but here we are!
 
Lets talk about AD /UD by police.
This data is old from 2013.
Police experience a lot of UD.
Research on the subject shows Police and Citizens have a lot of Ad/UD.


Start at paragraph 6 where it goes into discharges by police.


“In larger cities, which may be an artifact of the sources used. Surprisingly, 36.3% (29) of the incidents occurred in major urban areas, 33.8% (27) occurred in suburban areas, 17.5% (14) occurred in urban areas, and only 12.5% (10)
occurred in rural areas. In other words, over half, 53.8% (43) of the total cases occurred in urban cities. Reporting requirements in rural verses urban communities may help to account for this difference. Additionally, the presence of
witnesses or coworkers in an urban area may help ensure that a report is filed.

Concerning the severity of impact, 56.3% (45) of the incidents resulted in injury without death, 26.3% (21)
resulted in no injury at all, and 17.5% (14) resulted in death. It is highly likely that the increased severity of cases is related to the propensity of news media to cover more severe cases. Concerning the circumstances under which the accidental discharge occurred, 20% (16) occurred during a training exercise and 7.5% (6) occurred during weapon cleaning.”

————————-

I think LEO / Civilian are placing a lot of blame on equipment for their own failures….
 
ECS686 said:
I am involved in the training industry and thwre are skne 320 fans that have invested their ego in that platform and are prepared to die in that hill.

A state forum I am on there are some outright denial on not just if guns go off but that thwre is a rift when as of now you can’t use a 320 at a large number of venues.

The latest was a range in Heah however they are hosting a USPSA championship sponsored by Sig (ironic) the range banned 320’s but have a waiver for that match due to Sig sponsor and USPSA itself has not banned the 320 and being a sanctions championship

I had a 320 X5 legion about 5 years and it shot great but didn’t do anything for me that my others did so I sold it and got a Springfield Operator

There are more Glock and M&Ps in LE holsters and thwre is no issue (or video) of yjen going off with hamds nowhere around the gun kine has been produced and had witnessed with 320 that happen
(And for the smooth brains that want to quip “Glock leg” that was an actual training issue that happened with the gun in the shooter's hand nit at rest in a holster.)

The facts are something other than user error is happening to Sig 320’s specifically but rabid fans argue “mine never have given me an issue (like with Serpa holsters)

Well my Grandma lived to be 99 and smoked a pack a day and that doesn’t negate the fact a lot of other in her shoes didn’t make 99 from cancers related to smoking but here we are!
Click to expand...
My post was in wrong topic. I meant if for a different subject post. The Dem post.
 
KillerFord1977 said:
.”

————————-

I think LEO / Civilian are placing a lot of blame on equipment for their own failures….
Click to expand...

As a retired LE trainer (both FLETC and a state academy) I won’t say ykur wrong as that’s usually the first excuse by a lot of folks.

That said at depose dive while I saw my share of AD’s in the military with a DA first pull of an M9 as well as an agency Beretta 92 DAO those usually involved carelessness (or horseplay) where they knew better but didn’t practice it

One thing though woth AD’s in the street I will use NYPD as an example and it falls right in with what Ernest Langdon has said. It’s not the light weight of the trigger as much as it is the short trigger travel that cause a lot of Officer (gun in hamds AD’s) but with guns made that are so easy to shoot these days everyone needs to be on point a lot more.

With NYPD whem that whole NY and NY okus trigger came out with 8 or 12 pounds to “imitate ” a revolvwr weight thwre was still ADs with guns I. Hands when doing stuff, sympathetic squeeze etc.

In 2019 I was doing a Gkick armorer recert and NYPD just went to the standard trigger (5 pounds) as apparently a large department in Maryland did the same and scores went up. NYPD did a test with 50% issued standard 5 pound triggers. What the found (and a NYPD instructor Rangemaster acquaintance confirmed this.
There was zero increase in Officer induced AD’s with the lighter triggers as the travel was the same.

(NYPD is approving the FN 509 at some point for those following such things)

So while there is something to ADs woth guns in hands and obviously gaht isn’t a gear issue the problem woth the 320 is the documented amount of guns going off with guns seated in Holsters and even if you threw 50% of those out to user error or long handcuff keys getting in that’s still a lot of guns going off without a human touch that probably shouldn’t have

Live my Sig 22X DA/SA series but there are way better striker fired options without the baggage that I can use at any match or range!

That’s just me though .
 
ECS686 said:
As a retired LE trainer (both FLETC and a state academy) I won’t say ykur wrong as that’s usually the first excuse by a lot of folks.

That said at depose dive while I saw my share of AD’s in the military with a DA first pull of an M9 as well as an agency Beretta 92 DAO those usually involved carelessness (or horseplay) where they knew better but didn’t practice it

One thing though woth AD’s in the street I will use NYPD as an example and it falls right in with what Ernest Langdon has said. It’s not the light weight of the trigger as much as it is the short trigger travel that cause a lot of Officer (gun in hamds AD’s) but with guns made that are so easy to shoot these days everyone needs to be on point a lot more.

With NYPD whem that whole NY and NY okus trigger came out with 8 or 12 pounds to “imitate ” a revolvwr weight thwre was still ADs with guns I. Hands when doing stuff, sympathetic squeeze etc.

In 2019 I was doing a Gkick armorer recert and NYPD just went to the standard trigger (5 pounds) as apparently a large department in Maryland did the same and scores went up. NYPD did a test with 50% issued standard 5 pound triggers. What the found (and a NYPD instructor Rangemaster acquaintance confirmed this.
There was zero increase in Officer induced AD’s with the lighter triggers as the travel was the same.

(NYPD is approving the FN 509 at some point for those following such things)

So while there is something to ADs woth guns in hands and obviously gaht isn’t a gear issue the problem woth the 320 is the documented amount of guns going off with guns seated in Holsters and even if you threw 50% of those out to user error or long handcuff keys getting in that’s still a lot of guns going off without a human touch that probably shouldn’t have

Live my Sig 22X DA/SA series but there are way better striker fired options without the baggage that I can use at any match or range!

That’s just me though .
Click to expand...
Its great that we have a range of firearms to choose from. Folks have different opinions on all firearms.
Just think Turkey 😆😆🙃🙃
320 has folks polorized one way or the other, and minds will not be changed on either side
 
ECS686 said:
I am involved in the training industry and thwre are skne 320 fans that have invested their ego in that platform and are prepared to die in that hill.

A state forum I am on there are some outright denial on not just if guns go off but that thwre is a rift when as of now you can’t use a 320 at a large number of venues.

The latest was a range in Heah however they are hosting a USPSA championship sponsored by Sig (ironic) the range banned 320’s but have a waiver for that match due to Sig sponsor and USPSA itself has not banned the 320 and being a sanctions championship

I had a 320 X5 legion about 5 years and it shot great but didn’t do anything for me that my others did so I sold it and got a Springfield Operator

There are more Glock and M&Ps in LE holsters and thwre is no issue (or video) of yjen going off with hamds nowhere around the gun kine has been produced and had witnessed with 320 that happen
(And for the smooth brains that want to quip “Glock leg” that was an actual training issue that happened with the gun in the shooter's hand nit at rest in a holster.)

The facts are something other than user error is happening to Sig 320’s specifically but rabid fans argue “mine never have given me an issue (like with Serpa holsters)

Well my Grandma lived to be 99 and smoked a pack a day and that doesn’t negate the fact a lot of other in her shoes didn’t make 99 from cancers related to smoking but here we are!
Click to expand...
Whatever the point is you are trying to make, it is nearly impossible to give you any credibility when you insist on not doing this:

IMG_4394.jpeg
 
I do not own anymore Sigs. When I did it seemed I had to send them back more than any other brand I had. Honestly when you called customer service it seemed that you were the problem not the piece of crap they made. Finally got sick of them and their attitude. I know a lot of you guys swear by them.... I swear at them.
 
NMEDGE said:
I do not own anymore Sigs. When I did it seemed I had to send them back more than any other brand I had. Honestly when you called customer service it seemed that you were the problem not the piece of crap they made. Finally got sick of them and their attitude. I know a lot of you guys swear by them.... I swear at them.
Click to expand...
I own many guns from many makers.
Life is too short for 1 gun company.
Sig makes fantastic products and they make some that are are just not my jam. Holds true for a lot of gun makers
 
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