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Stop Calling These Accidents

ECS686

Operator
Or how to properly clear a weapon.
While clearing is important a safe direction goes hand in hand. it’s a mechanism that prevents bodily injury at least. It stumps me the number of folks end up with a bullet hole in their hand when pulling the trigger to disassemble the gun. Like safe direction no human contact minimum property damage. Why the Military and agencies use clearing barrels. They know some schmuck is gonna &$:” up sometime. And if it’s in the barrel everyone is good with a A&$ chewing and a few memes posted
 

HayesGreener

Professional
I've been around guns for over 20 years and I'm not going to lie to you they still scare me a little bit and I think that's a good thing.

Whenever I clean my glock I unload it in the bedroom and I take it to the cleaning area with the slide locked to the rear.

When I get to the cleaning area I shine a flashlight down the bore and make sure that I can see light in the chamber.

I am completely aware that this is massive overkill. I'm also aware that I've never shot my refrigerator while cleaning my gun.
There is no overkill where safety is concerned
 

HayesGreener

Professional
I had my instructors install a clearing barrel at the patrol entrances of the PD so they could safely clear and load when coming in and out for monthly weapon inspection. A number of officers grumped until a bullet hole appeared in the bottom of the bullet trap. Those guys were very well trained but not immune to brain farts.
 
Sorry, I am a big stickler on this, and, however avoidable it was, it was still, technically, an accident. Unless he actually really did mean to do it, which, I doubt he meant to shoot himself in the hand, it was an accident. An accident caused by his neglect, but an accident, nonetheless. If there was no intent, it was an accident.

Most likely, it was probably a Glock. He probably dropped the mag, but still had a round in the chamber. He pulled the trigger as required for disassembly, and, bang
So, you're unfamiliar with Glock operations! As they're not mag safe doesn't mean the gun isn't! I do own a number of Glocks and it doesn't require a trigger pull with mag removed to clear the chamber. However it does require trigger pull to be able to remove the slide. At least that's what I have had to do. Do lots and lots of dry work when especially unfamiliar with a firearm! When you feel comfortable, stop? Leave the gun empty for hours or days then do it again. Just because peat fell out of the boat doesn't mean you're safe.
 
This is what happens when you don't get a 44mag (de) cleared. Ejected the mag and cycled the slide (yes, all the way closed and opened), but the extractor didn't pull it out. Dropped the hammer and boom! It didn't go all the way thru, but did protrude the 1.75" hardwood.
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New britches?
Almost! I did check for bleeding (me) and other potential damage. As it was indoors it wasn't as loud as I would expect. I do check way more closely! I would change "accident" to "incident" as to be more the case on the OP. People shouldn't use the word "accident" until everything is conducted and concluded.
 

PAGunGuy

Elite
So, you're unfamiliar with Glock operations! As they're not mag safe doesn't mean the gun isn't! I do own a number of Glocks and it doesn't require a trigger pull with mag removed to clear the chamber. However it does require trigger pull to be able to remove the slide. At least that's what I have had to do. Do lots and lots of dry work when especially unfamiliar with a firearm! When you feel comfortable, stop? Leave the gun empty for hours or days then do it again. Just because peat fell out of the boat doesn't mean you're safe.
Not sure what happened, here, but that's not what I am saying.
I am familiar with Glocks, I have been carrying for for duty for years.
What I am saying is that the guy probably dropped the mag but filed to clear the round in the chamber. So when he pulled the trigger, which is required to remove the slide, that's when it went bang.
I don't prefer having to pull a trigger for disassembly, but I don't hate it, either. Most semi auto striker fires require this.
Now, I don't really like Glocks, but not because of their safety featured. Just not guns that I shoot particularly well and overall not huge on polymer, strike fired guns. Although I did like my XD more than my G 45.
 

ECS686

Operator
Almost! I did check for bleeding (me) and other potential damage. As it was indoors it wasn't as loud as I would expect. I do check way more closely! I would change "accident" to "incident" as to be more the case on the OP. People shouldn't use the word "accident" until everything is conducted and concluded.
I don’t agree with blanket terms either. Case. I was the lead running a line of rookies. After the first 2 stages there was some weak hand stuff. I explained some techniques and then with everyone on the 7 had them draw their DAO Berettas and work the slide 3 times lock open and the line instructors check. After getting all clear from the lines it was suppose to be dry fire time aimed in on their targets.

AND a bang to my left. After my initial WTF was that and checking everyone (was it someone going crazy, etc etc etc) nope just a line instructor didn’t do his job.

But the rookie did everything right. He was aimed in safe direction (his target) so is that an AD? Some here maybe. It wasn’t an UD as he was dry firing as instructed that would also be more of an incident.

So I’d be careful of blanket phrases as there can always be something more to it!

Also on a different day someone was loading mags from a box of ammo on the 7 (7 yard line is starting to be a common denominator) dropped the almost full box of ammo and when landed a round within the box went off. Hole about the size of a 50 piece in the box and outside was the mangled brass and projectile a few inches away.

And a line full of witnesses and his gun unloaded and holstered there was no foul play legitimate fluke!

So never say never and label a one size fits all.
 
Accident means it was NOT done intentionally. Gross negligence is still an accident. I get the point, so that the gross negligence element is not lost as a lesson we emphasize the negligence and not simply call it an accident. And most states laws do have something like manslaughter with the grounds that the negligence was so out of reason, that the excuse it was an accident, does not relieve you for the responsibility of the gross negligence. In this case, unless the shooter is lying I expect it will be declared an accident and no charges filed, his continued employment as a Police Officer may be in jeopardy, and that is very reasonable IMO.

I saw this discussed on another forum, and the same thing appeared, why was someone else even in the room with him.
Lets no forget, unless you're going to isolate yourself a 500 yards for a pistol and 2000 yards for a rifle in all directions from everyone else, isolating yourself does not assure others safety while cleaning a firearm. True, probabilities go down with distance. I'm not aware of any safety rule saying you have to clean weapons alone. And in the military we always cleaned weapons in a group in very close proximity to each other. In recreation, I have cleaned weapons after the range in a group with the friends/family I shot with as well, I have yet to have a someone hurt during cleaning.

As more details are released about this, on the other forum, people were jumping to conclusion on all these details don't add up and were proof things were very fishy about this. I pointed out, if these two both wanted to be cops, and one actually got a cop job in a department 35 miles away, the other was still working as a security guard living with his parents and they both had a day off and got together to go shooting with each, then went to clean their weapons at the younger friends house when the accident happened. Which makes all the details coming out to fit perfectly, and is a very reasonable suspicion. No I don't know this is true, but its a possibility that should be considered before declaring a crime went down because the facts don't fit your imagined scenario.
 
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