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The Aftermath of a Defensive Display

It is a sticky situation, that...one thing you hear a lot of people say is “If I draw, I’m shooting”...which ignores the possibility (and not an unlikely one, at that) that in the 1-2 seconds it takes most people to draw from concealment, their assailant may just change their mind by the “defensive display”...

Good article.
 
Never underestimate the race to the phone after any defensive use or display of a gun. I'm hoping that most police have caught on to the fact that just because someone called 911 first doesn't automatically mean that they are the victim. Articles like the one in this link prove the author's point about criminals always wanting to be the victim, and reaffirms my faith in law enforcement.

www.thetruthaboutguns.com

Chicago Carjacker Calls 9-1-1 Because His Victim Pulled Gun on Him - The Truth About Guns

Go ahead, read that headline again. That’s right, Elliott Scott carjacked a tow truck in Chicago Tuesday. However, the truck’s rightful owner tracked down the flatbed thanks to GPS, whereupon the owner found Mr. Scott in the truck’s driver seat. The owner then pulled a gun on the Mr. Carjacker...
www.thetruthaboutguns.com www.thetruthaboutguns.com
 
wmg1299 said:
Never underestimate the race to the phone after any defensive use or display of a gun. I'm hoping that most police have caught on to the fact that just because someone called 911 first doesn't automatically mean that they are the victim. Articles like the one in this link prove the author's point about criminals always wanting to be the victim, and reaffirms my faith in law enforcement.

www.thetruthaboutguns.com

Chicago Carjacker Calls 9-1-1 Because His Victim Pulled Gun on Him - The Truth About Guns

Go ahead, read that headline again. That’s right, Elliott Scott carjacked a tow truck in Chicago Tuesday. However, the truck’s rightful owner tracked down the flatbed thanks to GPS, whereupon the owner found Mr. Scott in the truck’s driver seat. The owner then pulled a gun on the Mr. Carjacker...
www.thetruthaboutguns.com www.thetruthaboutguns.com
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So I was actually having a discussion about this very thing the other day. I made the point that “if” a unsub stole a police officer’s police car wouldn’t the officer draw his weapon and most likely fire upon the unsub as he’s driving off in the stolen vehicle? So if it’s legal for the police to do this then why isn’t it legal for “Law abiding” citizens to act the same way? Maybe @benstt can give me the answer on this one.
 
KLGunner said:
So I was actually having a discussion about this very thing the other day. I made the point that “if” a unsub stole a police officer’s police car wouldn’t the officer draw his weapon and most likely fire upon the unsub as he’s driving off in the stolen vehicle? So if it’s legal for the police to do this then why isn’t it legal for “Law abiding” citizens to act the same way? Maybe @benstt can give me the answer on this one.
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It’s gonna depend on your state laws.

Many states don’t allow lethal force to be used in defense of property, or to be used on a retreating party (driving away would definitely be considered retreat).

On the other hand, LEO’s can (again, depending on state laws) use deadly force to stop a felony in progress—GTA being a felony.

That may be the main distinction...
 
HansGruber said:
It’s gonna depend on your state laws.

Many states don’t allow lethal force to be used in defense of property, or to be used on a retreating party (driving away would definitely be considered retreat).

On the other hand, LEO’s can (again, depending on state laws) use deadly force to stop a felony in progress—GTA being a felony.

That may be the main distinction...
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What about intent to do harm? For all we know they plan on running you over with that same vehicle they stole. While you have the deer in the headlights look because they took your vehicle?

Sorry I should stop here I get a little to passionate about these things.
 
KLGunner said:
What about intent to do harm? For all we know they plan on running you over with that same vehicle they stole. While you have the deer in the headlights look because they took your vehicle?

Sorry I should stop here I get a little to passionate about these things.
Click to expand...
Are they driving directly at you, or are they driving away from you?

You’ll have a hard argument to make that they were trying to run you over if they were speeding away in the opposite direction...
 
TEXASforLIFE said:
Are you shooting the vehicle or directly at the perp who took your vehicle driving away? Castle law or not, but why shoot your own vehicle and the insurance not pay for damages? Hmmmmm???
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Granted the analogy used could’ve been better. Point is in Texas you are legally allowed to use deadly force when protecting self, property or family. Provided you can prove you felt One of those things was in immediate danger.
 
HansGruber said:
It’s gonna depend on your state laws.

Many states don’t allow lethal force to be used in defense of property, or to be used on a retreating party (driving away would definitely be considered retreat).

On the other hand, LEO’s can (again, depending on state laws) use deadly force to stop a felony in progress—GTA being a felony.

That may be the main distinction...
Click to expand...


You are allowed to defend yourself, others and property in my state. You aren't however allowed to use deadly force unless you have a reasonable fear of death or grievous bodily injury of you or someone else. In other words you are allowed to stand your ground with a thief, but if the thief doesn't make an attempt to attack or injure someone you can't shoot him. And it is never legal to shoot someone who is fleeing.

And technically it isn't legal for cops to do it either. Their loophole is if they have reason to believe allowing the suspect to flee will put other people/citizens in danger. It's kind of like probable cause. That is to say it's purposely ambiguous. Of course these days depending on where you are and what color you are and what color the suspect is you damn well better have more than ambiguous probable cause.
 
In FL it’s defense of yourself or others but not property. Homes and cars are part of the castle doctrine IF you’re inside and bad guy is breaking in. Also, a home’s properly fenced in yard but that’s complicated.
For cops some states allow a presumption of intent when a squad is stolen. Factors like the suspect, availability of firearms (some have them locked up some are just secured), and situation are necessary considerations.
 
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