The Origin of the Commander-Size 1911

[Talyn]

Shortly before our entry into the Korean War, the U.S. government was searching for a lighter pistol for military officers. In hopes of securing a lucrative federal contract, Colt created an aluminum-frame, 9 mm-chambered version of the famed 1911 having a 4.25-inch barrel. Unfortunately for the company, the contract never materialized, but in 1950 Colt went ahead with production anyway, marketing the gun to civilian shooters as “The Commander.”

The Commander-size 1911 found a home on the civilian market and continues to be popular.

An Official Journal Of The NRA | The Origin of the Commander-Size 1911

Created in response to a possible military contract, the Commander-size 1911 found a home on the civilian market and continues to be popular to this day.

www.shootingillustrated.com

 

[ECS686]

That trial (or procurement request) also gave us the S&W model 39. Dick Fairburn (one of the better YouTube channels) had a great video on it just a few weeks ago

 

[Anchorite]

I prefer to carry a Commander over a FS.

I think I would get a 38 Super before a 9mm, but that’s just me.

I will acknowledge that a 1911 9mm would be a slick carry piece and even more desirable if magazine capacity bans were to come back in vogue.

 

[ECS686]

I prefer to carry a Commander over a FS.

I think I would get a 38 Super before a 9mm, but that’s just me.

I will acknowledge that a 1911 9mm would be a slick carry piece and even more desirable if magazine capacity bans were to come back in vogue.

I will say the 9mm commander is an underrated carry gun. I also am in Larry Vickers camp and believe a ramped barrel is better with the 9mm in a 1911. Like how Springfield makes the Garrison 4 1/4”

I’d love for them to make that in a carry model with magwell and plain black rear with red/orange fiber/night sight combo front.
Keep the one side thumb safety and nothing else

Hint hint Springfield!!!!

 

[Talyn]

Colt used to make a LW Commander in .38 Super, and someone should do so again.

Considering you can use 9x23 Winchester in the same chamber (after a extractor check) with no issues would make it even better.

 

[ECS686]

Colt used to make a LW Commander in .38 Super, and someone should do so again.

Considering you can use 9x23 Winchester in the same chamber (after an extractor check) with no issues would make it even better.

Colt makes the combat commander (steel frame) in 38 Super for the last couple years

Commander - Colt’s Manufacturing Company LLC

www.colt.com

 

[Talyn]

Colt makes the combat commander (steel frame) in 38 Super for the last couple years

Commander - Colt’s Manufacturing Company LLC

www.colt.com

Yea I know about it but would like the extra weight savings.

My full-sized SA aluminum-framed 1911 .45 is really comfortable for carry.

 

[Winchester67]

My lightweight Smith and Wesson version has an Ed Brown barrel and bushing fitted by Bill Laughridge. While he was in there he replaced the MIM parts and slicked up the trigger and put on a proper arched mainspring housing. I wish it had a checkered front strap and no cocking serrations, but this is really close to the correct answer for concealed carry. In a Brommeland or Milt Sparks inside the waistband holster of course.

 

[Winchester67]

I am also fond of my Sig "Commander" but I wish it had the fine cut cocking serrations (those wide ones look like a cheap imported copy of a 1911 to me). And all one color, or a proper two tone hard chrome lower and blued upper. But I do like the Bobtail and the chambering. This is a .357 Sig model. Flat shooting, designed to duplicate the 125 grain .357 Magnum load that got such a fearsome reputation as a stopper back when the good guys all carried revolvers. And being a bottle neck it is very reliable...almost HAS to feed because of the shape; a .355 projectile going into a 40 caliber sized chamber. I really like this cartridge.

 

[Belt Fed]

I am also fond of my Sig "Commander" but I wish it had the fine cut cocking serrations (those wide ones look like a cheap imported copy of a 1911 to me). And all one color, or a proper two tone hard chrome lower and blued upper. But I do like the Bobtail and the chambering. This is a .357 Sig model. Flat shooting, designed to duplicate the 125 grain .357 Magnum load that got such a fearsome reputation as a stopper back when the good guys all carried revolvers. And being a bottle neck it is very reliable...almost HAS to feed because of the shape; a .355 projectile going into a 40 caliber sized chamber. I really like this cartridge.

View attachment 98766

Now you done made me go and drool all over my keyboard.

 

[Talyn]

Colt makes the combat commander (steel frame) in 38 Super for the last couple years

Commander - Colt’s Manufacturing Company LLC

www.colt.com

I may get a 9mm Colt LW Commander and rebarrel it to .38 Super.

Then I will be able to shoot 3 calibers.

I did the same back in the mid-90's with a full-sized (all steel) SA 9mm loaded target. Runs fine in al three with just a recoil spring change.

 

[ECS686]

I may get a 9mm Colt LW Commander and rebarrel it to .38 Super.

Then I will be able to shoot 3 calibers.

I did the same back in the mid-90's with a full-sized (all steel) SA 9mm loaded target. Runs fine in al three with just a recoil spring change.

What is the 3rd caliber uiu want to run?

I was told by a competent 1911 smith (because I asked as well) and he stated you can run a 9mm barrel in a 38 super 1911 but not so much the other way because the 38 Super being a semi Rimmed case the breech face was bigger but the 9mm would or should cause issues as it’s smaller.

 

[Talyn]

What is the 3rd caliber uiu want to run?

I was told by a competent 1911 smith (because I asked as well) and he stated you can run a 9mm barrel in a 38 super 1911 but not so much the other way because the 38 Super being a semi Rimmed case the breech face was bigger but the 9mm would or should cause issues as it’s smaller.

I mentioned above that the 9x23 Winchester will run in a 38 Super. So, 1 9mm barrel + 1 38 Super barrel that will run both .38 Super & 9x23 Win. = 3 calibers with recoil spring & barrel swaps.

I converted a full-sized RIA 9mm to 38 Super with no breech-face & functional issues. The rim diameter difference is minuscule.

 

[ECS686]

I mentioned above that the 9x23 Winchester will run in a 38 Super. So, 1 9mm barrel + 1 38 Super barrel that will run both .38 Super & 9x23 Win. = 3 calibers with recoil spring & barrel swaps.

I converted a full-sized RIA 9mm to 38 Super with no breech-face & functional issues. The rim diameter difference is minuscule.

Gotcha, must have missed it. That 9x23 had potential yjen fizzled pretty quick.

I wish ammo companies (I’m talking about the big makers everyone knows about Buffalo Bore and Double Tap) would make 38 Super in its real loading.

 

[HayesGreener]

My 70's vintage Commander will still get the job done but the original sights were too fine for my old eyes so I upgraded the sights. This one had been shot a lot so I also had to replace the extractor, slide release and recoil spring, new beavertail and mainspring housing, new grips, and had it ceracoated. Now it has a new lease on life and will run with the big dogs.

 

[Winchester67]

Almost forgot about this Commander...vintage Combat Commander worked over by Bob Chow. He was an Olympic shooter and generally worked his magic on Bullseye 1911's, but he did a few serious carry pieces as well.

 

[Talyn]

Gotcha, must have missed it. That 9x23 had potential yjen fizzled pretty quick.

I wish ammo companies (I’m talking about the big makers everyone knows about Buffalo Bore and Double Tap) would make 38 Super in its real loading.

The 9x23 Winchester had a short commercial life due to a patent infringement lawsuit between John Ricco & Winchester, which snow-balled on for several years and taking the wind out of the fine cartridge. Winchester does make a run of it every time Hailey's Comet passes, and Buffalo Bore offers three loads.

9X23 Winchester

9X23 Winchester

www.buffalobore.com

BTW - the 9mm Luger rim diameter is 0.392 inches whereas the .38 Super is 0.406 in. so the difference is 0.014 and a 9mm 1911 breech-face isn't that tight.

and the 9x23 Winchester has a slight taper that fits in just fine in a .38 Super chamber.

9x23 Winchester: Super Speed, 45 Recoil?

The 9x23 Winchester had potential to be a game changing round, but legal issues and poor timing left this round to be all but forgotten today.

www.capandballseo.com

More...

Pistol Powerhouse: The 9x23 Winchester - Shooting Times

The 9x23 Winchester cartridge is a powerhouse round that few have heard of. Too bad. It delivers

www.shootingtimes.com

Post in thread 'Ask Josh: Is .45 ACP Still The Best 1911 Round?'

Mar 18, 2021

The best 1911 round is the 9x23 Winchester.

Pistol Powerhouse: The 9x23 Winchester - Shooting Times

The 9x23 Winchester cartridge is a powerhouse round that few have heard of. Too bad. It delivers

www.shootingtimes.com

9×23mm Winchester - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

• Talyn

• 

Thread 'Cartridge of the Week: The .38 Super Comp'

Apr 10, 2022

The .38 Super Comp

The .38 Super Comp is a rimless version of the 38 Super (or +P) with similar internal capacity to 38 Super. The 38 Super Comp was designed to enhance feeding reliability in high-capacity magazines of competition race guns chambered for the .38 Super. Effectively they are interchangeable, Some .38 Super pistols may require minor extractor tuning to allow the extractor to reliably pull the rimless case from the chamber.

Rimless .38 Super Brass: Everything You Need To Know

The .38 Super retains the original...

• Talyn
• Replies: 0
• Forum: Guns

• 

 

[Talyn]

Just a safety note. "Winchester-made" 9x23 brass is very strong & "I" only use 9x23 Winchester ammo/brass in an "unsupported" 38 Super barrel since the "Winchester 9x23 brass" can handle it, and I've had no issues.

However, 9x23 (and associated "Comp" type) Starline brass isn't as strong so it would be wise to fit a "supported barrel" if you want to use "non-Winchester" brass in a 1911.

That being said if I did do a conversion it would be best to fit a 9x23 barrel since that would cover any ammo/brass type useage for either cartridge.

 

[Rich7890]

Shortly before our entry into the Korean War, the U.S. government was searching for a lighter pistol for military officers. In hopes of securing a lucrative federal contract, Colt created an aluminum-frame, 9 mm-chambered version of the famed 1911 having a 4.25-inch barrel. Unfortunately for the company, the contract never materialized, but in 1950 Colt went ahead with production anyway, marketing the gun to civilian shooters as “The Commander.”

The Commander-size 1911 found a home on the civilian market and continues to be popular.

An Official Journal Of The NRA | The Origin of the Commander-Size 1911

Created in response to a possible military contract, the Commander-size 1911 found a home on the civilian market and continues to be popular to this day.

www.shootingillustrated.com

View attachment 98709

Just a safety note. "Winchester-made" 9x23 brass is very strong & "I" only use 9x23 Winchester ammo/brass in an "unsupported" 38 Super barrel since the "Winchester 9x23 brass" can handle it, and I've had no issues.

However, 9x23 (and associated "Comp" type) Starline brass isn't as strong so it would be wise to fit a "supported barrel" if you want to use "non-Winchester" brass in a 1911.

That being said if I did do a conversion it would be best to fit a 9x23 barrel since that would cover any ammo/brass type useage for either cartridge.

Here is a 1950 make I picked up for $200. No provenance nor paperwork so I refinished it.