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The Uvalde Report

So...It looks like some 20 or so agencys had people on the scene.The person in charge thought it was a barricade situation ,when in fact people were still being killed.No one could hear children crying and dying ? Since Ive already been criticized for calling these men cowards.I'll just let the courts judge.
 
Bloodknight said:
So...It looks like some 20 or so agencys had people on the scene.The person in charge thought it was a barricade situation ,when in fact people were still being killed.No one could hear children crying and dying ? Since Ive already been criticized for calling these men cowards.I'll just let the courts judge.
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i don't believe i criticized anyone commenting on the "cowards".

i felt the same way.

one thing i'll always remember is what was said, by many others in time of disaster....

"heros like police, fire, soldiers, go in, while others run out". (i think i had to paraphrase that)
 
The Report highlights much of was previously unknown to the public, whether this clarifies the response or not, it probably influences more negative emotion towards the PD. When you send your kids to school, the teacher is the parent in lieu of and has a responsibility to protect the kids foremost. The Report does share this blame on the unprepared school administration.
Police react to danger and they have to be prepared and expected to react to the best of their ability. Nobody signed up to be the bullseye or to die, that’s consequence and danger which comes with the nature of the job.

The amount of PD personnel (from all different agencies) in the halls the media released was intended to show the dysfunction of a perhaps poorly executed plan that went sour. Too many cooks in the kitchen comes to mind, too many chiefs without communications not knowing exactly where they were or how much danger their amassed presence could interfere.

The incident commander even in an interim position has the responsibility to keep training fresh and adequate. As time passed, more chiefs maybe even those more trained failed to establish and coordinate, but ultimately there were just too many misdirections.
Sometimes it’s the first on scene that has to take action in these exigent circumstances and sometimes the protocols have to altered in split second decisions. I guarantee you, no first responder on that scene left that day without some wishing they could have done something different or more.

The Report highlights the shooters social media and video game infatuation, home and social life troubles, education shortfalls, all excuses by professors and counselors. Issues that seem so prevalent in most of these incidents, maybe in all violent shootings and all their focused on is the weapon. These non-Leo experts all of a sudden forget about the root causes.

In these days of blaming the police of going overboard for every incident involving response criminal activity, this incident has plenty to do with what evolved that day with some responders second guessing and predicting an unfortunate outcome should something go wrong like collateral injuries. Reactive decision affected by emotion is natural, but decision based or influenced on political emotion can be devastating.

Blaming the police has to stop. Prosecution has to increase. If there are little or no firm consequences for violent criminal behavior and I don’t mean social intervention programs, the problems will never get under control.
 
I have met Lamb and heard him speak. He is dead right, failure to lead, and failure to train will lead to mission failure every time. Most of the 17,000 LE agencies in the U.S. understand this. Wherever SWAT trainers and firearms trainers gather, it is always a topic of discussion. The final analysis is simple: if you put incompetent people into leadership positions, at all levels, you get mission failure.
 
10mmLife said:
Mike Glover has broken down the video footage and reports from Uvalde and here is his take on what went down.

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my question as i cannot recall reading about it previously is, where did the Uvalde police dept get it's training for such an event?

was it from certified mass shooting LEO's that have been involved in such?

was it from (say) another LEO source not as familiar with this type of scenario?
 
You had literally dozens of armed and "trained" police officers on the scene in minutes..... And they did nothing for the better part of an hour, while those kids were being systematically shot and killed. And their complaint is no one was in charge?..... Including the Chief Of Police? Are they actually serious?
 
Good training has been available to law enforcement agencies for decades. Some of the best training in the country is available in Texas. What training the LE agencies availed themselves of I don't know.

An aspect of this incident that has not been fully examined is the dynamics of a police force that works for a school district. Education institutions are by their nature liberal. Many educators don't want police in schools and see them as a "necessary evil". This is typically reflected in their pay scales.

The incident response was commanded by a school police chief. When selecting a police chief, the school board is probably not going to opt for a SWAT trained door kicker, and the training and culture of the department will reflect this thinking. The school administration is focused on education, and security and law enforcement are often afterthoughts. You can see that in the staff's lackadaisical attitudes about physical security in the building. Training, and training budgets, will reflect that emphasis.

Given the fact that the police chief is a product of this system, I am not in the least bit surprised that he failed to implement a tactical solution early on. Bureaucratic inertia is standard procedure in the academic environment. It is a problem that LE agencies in schools have wrestled with for years.

Clearly the school police and other LE agencies involved had not exercised their response plans, such as they were, to clearly define lines of authority. I am disappointed that command was not assumed by one of the other responding agencies early on since the school police chief was impotent to handle incident command. Exercising critical incident response is crucial to identifying weaknesses in your response capabilities. In the final analysis, this was a failure of leadership at multiple levels.
 
Old_Me said:
my question as i cannot recall reading about it previously is, where did the Uvalde police dept get it's training for such an event?

was it from certified mass shooting LEO's that have been involved in such?

was it from (say) another LEO source not as familiar with this type of scenario?
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I doubt it matters. Not exactly sure how you would go about "training" the cowardice out of people? Perhaps by not allowing them to become police officers in the first place.

Remember, we had the same thing happen during the Stoneman Douglas High School shooting in Florida. There was a cop in that incident, (Scot Peterson), who refused to enter the building and confront the shooter.

Many kids died as a direct result. This appears to be developing into a pattern among law enforcement in these incidents. Also, when that happened the Sheriff of Broward County, Florida, Scott Israel, was suspended, and eventually fired for his incompetence, and lack of direct action and leadership during that incident.
 
billt said:
You had literally dozens of armed and "trained" police officers on the scene in minutes..... And they did nothing for the better part of an hour, while those kids were being systematically shot and killed. And their complaint is no one was in charge?..... Including the Chief Of Police? Are they actually serious?
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It is my understanding that the children killed were already dead when the officers arrived. The tragedy is for those who were wounded.
 
billt said:
I doubt it matters. Not exactly sure how you would go about "training" the cowardice out of people? Perhaps by not allowing them to become police officers in the first place.

Remember, we had the same thing happen during the Stoneman Douglas High School shooting in Florida. There was a cop in that incident, (Scot Peterson), who refused to enter the building and confront the shooter.

Many kids died as a direct result. This appears to be developing into a pattern among law enforcement in these incidents. Also, when that happened the Sheriff of Broward County, Florida, Scott Israel, was suspended, and eventually fired for his incompetence, and lack of direct action and leadership during that incident.
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You are correct that Parkland incident was another miserable failure of leadership at the Sheriff's Department over a number of years. Again, I say incompetent people in positions of leadership result in mission failure.
 
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