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Trigger Talk with Texas 🤔

:unsure: No! It's not a podcast startup? I've seen a lot of chitchat about triggers on pistols, BA and AR rifles. Some complaints, "well this 1 gas too much take up", "this 1 just sucks", "too much creep"! Then there has been a few silver linings. "The break on this 1 is crisp", "no overtravel" and "0 take up". I'm not sure if there is a bunch of complainers or just picky? Sure who wouldn't want an outstanding trigger on their firearm! Yes, I do own several Glock handguns and they (triggers) work fine for me. I have installed 1 aftermarket trigger on a g31 and it's better. As far as BA guns they all are factory. ARs have CMC, Elfmann, Geissele, POF, Tac-Con, Rise Armament, Lantac and APF triggers. Rise and POF triggers have been the least reliable (resetting). Lantac has been good, but not worth the price (retail, but got them on sale). Tac-Con was more of a gimmick, but is a faster trigger with the way it resets. CMC has been the best overall on price, quality and reliability. I don't have any bullpup ARs or BA, so can't comment on those style. Agency Arms is the only pistol trigger I've installed (G31) and I can tell a little improvement, but still needs more adjusting.
 
Speaking from my personal experience here, I have no use for after market triggers, unless it is to replace a broken one. You get what you pay for. A high quality firearm should come with a high quality trigger. I am not talking about a light trigger, I am talking a good trigger. Yes you may have to pay a bit more for the gun. But in my opinion, if the manufacturer cannot be bothered with installing a good trigger on the gun at the factory in the first place, I have no use for them.
 
All the guns I’ve purchased over the years have had decent respectable triggers and I felt that since each one was slightly different it was required of me to learn how each one works through training and repetition. In all honesty I never felt the need or inclination to replace any of the internal components of any of my firearms.
 
I replaced springs in two jframe revolvers to slightly lessen DA pull weight. And I had an action job performed on my favorite hunting handgun I used for 25 years or so.

That is the extent of the concern I have had with triggers in 50 odd years of shooting.

It's really not something I find a huge deal..however, if I shot competitively, or at long distances that would be a huge different story most likely.
 
Speaking from my personal experience here, I have no use for after market triggers, unless it is to replace a broken one. You get what you pay for. A high quality firearm should come with a high quality trigger. I am not talking about a light trigger, I am talking a good trigger. Yes you may have to pay a bit more for the gun. But in my opinion, if the manufacturer cannot be bothered with installing a good trigger on the gun at the factory in the first place, I have no use for them.

I agree in theory but this isn't always the case. For the record, all of my firearms have the stock triggers in them. Of course the ARs I've put together myself have whatever trigger and hammer I bought to put in them ( all are mil spec or enhanced mil spec). There are a lot of handguns that are nice enough but have crappy triggers. Frankly, even though I won a couple of them, the triggers on M&P Shields aren't that great. For carry guns they work fine though and I shoot very well with them. With ARs you can put any one of a million different triggers in there so who's to say what constitutes a "Stock" trigger. My most recent one is a 223 Wylde and while I built the lower with an enhanced mil spec FCG, I will most likely be putting a drop in, such as the RA Rave 140 in it. The reason being that I intend this one to be a range rifle.
 
All of the AR style triggers that were mentioned were installed on personally built guns, not replacements. The 3 factory guns still have factory triggers. I don't do any competitive shooting, but the ability to have a "drop in" 1 complete unit has its perks. I also don't have go to other ranges or the ability to "try before you buy" on "this is the trigger I like", so buying decisions can take a while. Pistol triggers are no a big deal and are a no complaint item for me. AR triggers are more of "I don't need a high dollar trigger" regardless of funds. On the mention of mil-spec triggers does anyone have any specialized antifriction coated triggers (drop in or multi piece)? I do have 1 NP3 coated that is quiet and functions well. I'm not or in need of those light weight hammers (the gun kind that is).
 
I’m okay with stock triggers of any kind. I‘m an old grunt, so I’m very familiar with military two stage, be it M1 Garands, M1 carbines, M14 or M16/M4 series and the civilian equivalents I now own (To include Mini-14s). In fact, I’ve always been impressed with the stock, M16/AR15 triggers, would never consider upgrading those. I‘ve always preferred the M1 series actions over the M16 series in general, but I think the M16 series triggers (stock) are superior.
The Germans figured this out long ago. Many of their longarms, even back to the muzzle loader days had/have set triggers, so you can have both a heavy and light trigger pull. I have a Steyr GB mannlicher, an old German Drilling and a Sauer 303 that have this feature. The Drilling is the most impressive; you simply push the trigger forward to set it to a light pull, push it again to unset it. But for military style firearms, a two stage is really optimum, not sure, but I think Mauser might even have started that trend.
I must say though, it is nice to have so many options. Triggers are a personal preference and to have the choice of changing light/ heavy or single/two stage is a real boon. Maybe not for me, but for different kinds or styles of shooting, trigger options are very important.
 
I use drop in, basic mil-spec & coated polished mil-spec triggers in different AR's and they all have their place and reasons why I use different types. Most of my AR's were put together by me.

The one positive of an upgraded trigger is that even in a budget AR it will be the most noticable difference in a performance upgrade you buy for an AR outside of a premium optic.

Good input of AR triggers @TEXASforLIFE
 
...I've seen a lot of chitchat about triggers on pistols, BA and AR rifles. Some complaints, "well this 1 gas too much take up", "this 1 just sucks", "too much creep"! Then there has been a few silver linings. "The break on this 1 is crisp", "no overtravel" and "0 take up". I'm not sure if there is a bunch of complainers or just picky?

I think it's choice "D. All of the above." :)

I think some folks really are more trigger-sensitive than others, and some are in-turn more picky than others. I personally don't see anything wrong there: it's just personal tastes.

Other times, there truly may be deficiencies with that particular weapon: production tolerances are what they are, and not all examples of one make/model are built precisely the same.

Personally, I am not the most trigger-sensitive shooter: I need to really, really concentrate on feeling the trigger path in order to pick out sometimes even quite glaring characteristics that others can pick up/out almost instantly (see picture below), but I'm definitely also far from the most inexperienced Greenhorn. :) So, with that in-mind, I will tell you that I spent over an hour at one LGS a few years ago, trying to pick out a Kel-Tec PMR30 that combined both a reasonable trigger path with a slide that didn't take excessive force to actuate 😅 (https://www.xdtalk.com/threads/xd-trigger-differances.369529/#post-6340489 - the pistol was for my then 13 year-old daughter, offering her a stepping-stone between .22LR and centerfire). I kid you not, the clerk and I opened a dozen boxes (they had over 40 in-stock, but I was only interested in either black or gray, so that narrowed our task) and hand-cycled/dry-fired each one, and we both marveled at just how different each gun was from the other: the consistency was just not there.

Overall, I tend to need to work extra to properly characterize triggers:

Below is a picture of me and a classmate from a two-day handgun class a few years ago. This live-fire exercise had us shooting into the berm, bracing the handgun on our abdomen so that we could focus absolutely -both by feel as well as visually- on the entirety of the trigger path:


March 2017 Handgun 3.jpg



That was March of 2017, so that was probably 12,000 to 15,000 rounds on that gun, at that point?

In an effort towards more consistency, I've put in Springer Precision kits in all four of my XDms. Even so, the oldest of the four still has an ever so slightly different path than the others.

Another example that illustrates my point is when a friend of mine -a frequent-flier at local training classes- brought his then-new P320 to the class. Until that class, he'd shot only his 4.5-inch XDm9, so he was having some "teething" issues with trigger control that manifested on the higher-demand shots. Our instructor took the gun and tried a few test-shots with it, and remarked "that's interesting," when I stopped him and asked him not to tell me what he thought, and in-turn took the gun for my own assessment: it took me several shots - including clearing the gun out for dry-fire - before I was ready to offer my thoughts, to see if they matched with that of the instructor's.

With the ARs, as back-to-back examples, I've got one with a Geissele SSA-E, one with a SSA, and one with a G2S. For my level of trigger-(in)sensitivity, I can't really tell the difference between the SSA versus the G2S without physically looking at the triggers. That said, blind taste test by just holding the lowers, I'll do the challenge every time and pick out the SSA-E. My daughter's Larue MBT-2S's shoe physically feels different versus the Geissele triggers, so that makes the blind taste test a no-go, but even so, I am quite certain that I could tell the difference between it versus the SSA/G2S.

I think what's most stand-out to me the difference between a factory "USGI" single-stage AR trigger versus a good aftermarket like the ALG ACT, BCM PNT, Sionics EMT, SOLGW LFT, etc. It's a very appreciable difference, even for complete novices to grasp. Then you drop in a Wilson TTU into the mix, and whoa.....
 
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I think it's choice "D. All of the above." :)

I think some folks really are more trigger-sensitive than others, and some are in-turn more picky than others. I personally don't see anything wrong there: it's just personal tastes.

Other times, there truly may be deficiencies with that particular weapon: production tolerances are what they are, and not all examples of one make/model are built precisely the same.

Personally, I am not the most trigger-sensitive shooter: I need to really, really concentrate on feeling the trigger path in order to pick out sometimes even quite glaring characteristics that others can pick up/out almost instantly (see picture below), but I'm definitely also far from the most inexperienced Greenhorn. :) So, with that in-mind, I will tell you that I spent over an hour at one LGS a few years ago, trying to pick out a Kel-Tec PMR30 that combined both a reasonable trigger path with a slide that didn't take excessive force to actuate 😅 (https://www.xdtalk.com/threads/xd-trigger-differances.369529/#post-6340489 - the pistol was for my then 13 year-old daughter, offering her a stepping-stone between .22LR and centerfire). I kid you not, the clerk and I opened a dozen boxes (they had over 40 in-stock, but I was only interested in either black or gray, so that narrowed our task) and hand-cycled/dry-fired each one, and we both marveled at just how different each gun was from the other: the consistency was just not there.

Overall, I tend to need to work extra to properly characterize triggers:

Below is a picture of me and a classmate from a two-day handgun class a few years ago. This live-fire exercise had us shooting into the berm, bracing the handgun on our abdomen so that we could focus absolutely -both by feel as well as visually- on the entirety of the trigger path:


March 2017 Handgun 3.jpg



That was March of 2017, so that was probably 12,000 to 15,000 rounds on that gun, at that point?

In an effort towards more consistency, I've put in Springer Precision kits in all four of my XDms. Even so, the oldest of the four still has an ever so slightly different path than the others.

Another example that illustrates my point is when a friend of mine -a frequent-flier at local training classes- brought his then-new P320 to the class. Until that class, he'd shot only his 4.5-inch XDm9, so he was having some "teething" issues with trigger control that manifested on the higher-demand shots. Our instructor took the gun and tried a few test-shots with it, and remarked "that's interesting," when I stopped him and asked him not to tell me what he thought, and in-turn took the gun for my own assessment: it took me several shots - including clearing the gun out for dry-fire - before I was ready to offer my thoughts, to see if they matched with that of the instructor's.

With the ARs, as back-to-back examples, I've got one with a Geissele SSA-E, one with a SSA, and one with a G2S. For my level of trigger-(in)sensitivity, I can't really tell the difference between the SSA versus the G2S without physically looking at the triggers. That said, blind taste test by just holding the lowers, I'll do the challenge every time and pick out the SSA-E. My daughter's Larue MBT-2S's shoe physically feels different versus the Geissele triggers, so that makes the blind taste test a no-go, but even so, I am quite certain that I could tell the difference between it versus the SSA/G2S.

I think what's most stand-out to me the difference between a factory "USGI" single-stage AR trigger versus a good aftermarket like the ALG ACT, BCM PNT, Sionics EMT, SOLGW LFT, etc. It's a very appreciable difference, even for complete novices to grasp. Then you drop in a Wilson TTU into the mix, and whoa.....
You brought up another "take" on the subject that I missed! Trigger shape (face) being either flat, curved and a cross between (a nor so or flattened curve). Most of the flat faced all "feel" the same, but some of the curved (different manufacturers) have shape variances or "texture" that make me choose one over another.
 
Here is what I've used for customisable/adjustable triggers for a few years that makes the mechanics of it easy too see. You can change the grip, it has a hammer safe contact device and easy pin removal/install. It gives you a "feel/touch" for testing before installing. For adjustable triggers it can get real close too the installed setting with little variance.
16295904203134584450821899921715.jpg
 
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