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We got another P320 Shake-Awake incident.

There is a couple 320 threads going here. Nothing new

Until their CEO gets ousted nothing will change. He ran Kimber in the ground almost with their QC suffering, he had a felony in Hermanh for violating export laws with SIG and JP Sauer thwre (many think that was why the Germany division closed)
And he still gets 1.5 million annual salary all while it’s Servpro like it never happened!
Sign me up for that!

E

Thread 'More Sig 320 drama'

This is not a Bashing just an FYI (and I run a Sig 226 as a duty gun half the time)

This was posted on an Rangemaster Instructor FB group page by reliable sources.

Apparently within the last couple days the North California public training authority banned the use of Sig 320’s at their facilities due to all the issues.

This is after the Washington state academy (or whatever they call it) also supposedly restricted Sig 320 products.

So I’m curious how and when it gets rectified.

Living through the Hkick leg issues this seems to be more prevalent and the thing with Glock in the...
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Certified Silly Goose said:
In the gun world, Sig is still a baby. 49 years old. Smith is 173. Sig has a ways to go yet.
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New tk guns are we?

Might want to do some research. I was carrying a West German Sig 220 45 acp and 228 9mm for duty. In the late 80’s and early 90’s

Sig Sauer was a joint venture that while the venture is young to other companies however J.P Sauer and Sohn GmbH (that whole Sauer part) has been making Military arms since the nod to late 1700’s
 
Certified Silly Goose said:
In the gun world, Sig is still a baby. 49 years old. Smith is 173. Sig has a ways to go yet.
Click to expand...
SIG Sauer was formed in 1976 as a partnership between Schweizerische Industrie Gesellschaft (SIG) of Switzerland and J.P. Sauer & Sohn, Sauer & Sohn was founded in the 1750's.
S&W has been owned by many conglomerates the latest American Outdoor Brands Inc. S&W started operating as its own co. again in 2020. That would make S&W 5YO. ;)
Anyone remember the term Glock Leg? How about revolvers with the firing pin on the hammer? I have a very small dog in the fight, I own neither a sig nor a glock, but it annoys me to see "gun people" jump on the "its unsafe, corrupt, you don't need that, or reasonable controls band wagon.
"Yes, we must, indeed, all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately," Benjamin Franklin
 
ECS686 said:
New tk guns are we?

Might want to do some research. I was carrying a West German Sig 220 45 acp and 228 9mm for duty. In the late 80’s and early 90’s

Sig Sauer was a joint venture that while the venture is young to other companies however J.P Sauer and Sohn GmbH (that whole Sauer part) has been making Military arms since the nod to late 1700’s
Click to expand...
Sig, officially, is 49 years old. That is a fact. And they don't really mention the "Sauer" part much anymore, have you noticed? They're just "Sig" now. Perhaps they should put the "Sauer" part back in, then they won't have all these UD's anymore.
 
bc22wm said:
SIG Sauer was formed in 1976 as a partnership between Schweizerische Industrie Gesellschaft (SIG) of Switzerland and J.P. Sauer & Sohn, Sauer & Sohn was founded in the 1750's.
S&W has been owned by many conglomerates the latest American Outdoor Brands Inc. S&W started operating as its own co. again in 2020. That would make S&W 5YO. ;)
Anyone remember the term Glock Leg? How about revolvers with the firing pin on the hammer? I have a very small dog in the fight, I own neither a sig nor a glock, but it annoys me to see "gun people" jump on the "its unsafe, corrupt, you don't need that, or reasonable controls band wagon.
"Yes, we must, indeed, all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately," Benjamin Franklin
Click to expand...
I take it personally when guns start going off on their own, sorry. This isn't a "bandwagon". It's documented, happening to cops, in uniform on duty, on school grounds now. How long before the left starts coming after us with these arguments? There goes our "Guns don't kill people" argument because Sig refuses to acknowledge a problem and issue a recall. They double-down and their fan boys stand stanchly behind them, putting their ego before safety, handing the left BUCKETS of gasoline to throw on the fire.

Yeah, this time it's different. It's not a trend, it's a serious problem, and it's got to stop. Maybe if the flow of money to Sig came to a grinding halt, it WOULD stop.
 
Certified Silly Goose said:
Sig, officially, is 49 years old. That is a fact. And they don't really mention the "Sauer" part much anymore, have you noticed? They're just "Sig" now. Perhaps they should put the "Sauer" part back in, then they won't have all these UD's anymore.
Click to expand...
They do as part of their histoey they go by Sig “Sauer” and is on their website! as one single company they have Sig Sauer Academy (they started the NH division in the 1990’s after moving import headquarters from Sterling VA)

The JP Sauer is still a valid company non related to SIG however the German division of Sig Sauer brown up around the time whem the SIG CEO and others were charged criminally in the Germany export case.
 

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bc22wm said:
SIG Sauer was formed in 1976 as a partnership between Schweizerische Industrie Gesellschaft (SIG) of Switzerland and J.P. Sauer & Sohn, Sauer & Sohn was founded in the 1750's.
S&W has been owned by many conglomerates the latest American Outdoor Brands Inc. S&W started operating as its own co. again in 2020. That would make S&W 5YO. ;)
Anyone remember the term Glock Leg? How about revolvers with the firing pin on the hammer? I have a very small dog in the fight, I own neither a sig nor a glock, but it annoys me to see "gun people" jump on the "its unsafe, corrupt, you don't need that, or reasonable controls band wagon.
"Yes, we must, indeed, all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately," Benjamin Franklin
Click to expand...

The Glock Leg was a learning curve where we learned what we did and got away with DA revolvers and Autos (carrying an issues Revolver I remember the emphasis that uiu had to start the trigger pull on the draw from the Jordan style homsters that had the trigger exposed so we could get on it as we got our grip) we shouldn’t have been doing because Glocks has a much lighter easier to use trigger (wether that’s a good them is still argued)

I wouldn’t necessarily disagree on the banter back and forth as most we here are just brand loyalists (Ford vs Chevy) however in this case I would differ from that.

The SIG 320 issue is more than someone doesn’t just like brand X or they got worked up by their YouTube guntuber on what brand X business decisions (most remember everyone got mad at Bill Ruger on the 10 round mag comment whem he was in the northeast, rock River and Springfield allegedly trying to he exempt from Illinois law which all the calls for boycott were made when nobody understood the cost with a business like that costs to pick up and move and for those that want to throw S&W their revolvers and Headquarters are still in Springfield Mass they have a second factory turning out M&Ps and rifles in TN same reason Colt is still mostly in Hartford)

My thoughts these “uncommanded discharges” happen for real but only at about half of what we are hearing about (thwre are like 20 YouTube commentaries on each one)

I’d say out of those it could be about 20% from substandard internals from Pakistani and the rest it seems it’s a couple brands of holsters Specifically for WML factored with the trigger has no safe action like a Glock or hinge like S&W FN or others
The reason is while there has been some legitimate UD’s as a career LEO and Insteuctor at FLEYc and my own State LE Academy thwre is some factor that some LEOs (and civilians for that matter) I have seen walk around with improperly holstered handguns and a SIG 320 having no trigger dingus probably has something to do with it.

People are carrying Hkocks and M&Ps in these same homsters and there is not near the numbers of oops that Sig 320 has.

So SIG can rebrand the 320 as a 400 something with a trigger safety OR people can quit putting lights on their guns and pointing them at everyone but that isn’t going to happen!
 
ECS686 said:
The Glock Leg was a learning curve where we learned what we did and got away with DA revolvers and Autos (carrying an issues Revolver I remember the emphasis that uiu had to start the trigger pull on the draw from the Jordan style homsters that had the trigger exposed so we could get on it as we got our grip) we shouldn’t have been doing because Glocks has a much lighter easier to use trigger (wether that’s a good them is still argued)

I wouldn’t necessarily disagree on the banter back and forth as most we here are just brand loyalists (Ford vs Chevy) however in this case I would differ from that.

The SIG 320 issue is more than someone doesn’t just like brand X or they got worked up by their YouTube guntuber on what brand X business decisions (most remember everyone got mad at Bill Ruger on the 10 round mag comment whem he was in the northeast, rock River and Springfield allegedly trying to he exempt from Illinois law which all the calls for boycott were made when nobody understood the cost with a business like that costs to pick up and move and for those that want to throw S&W their revolvers and Headquarters are still in Springfield Mass they have a second factory turning out M&Ps and rifles in TN same reason Colt is still mostly in Hartford)

My thoughts these “uncommanded discharges” happen for real but only at about half of what we are hearing about (thwre are like 20 YouTube commentaries on each one)

I’d say out of those it could be about 20% from substandard internals from Pakistani and the rest it seems it’s a couple brands of holsters Specifically for WML factored with the trigger has no safe action like a Glock or hinge like S&W FN or others
The reason is while there has been some legitimate UD’s as a career LEO and Insteuctor at FLEYc and my own State LE Academy thwre is some factor that some LEOs (and civilians for that matter) I have seen walk around with improperly holstered handguns and a SIG 320 having no trigger dingus probably has something to do with it.

People are carrying Hkocks and M&Ps in these same homsters and there is not near the numbers of oops that Sig 320 has.

So SIG can rebrand the 320 as a 400 something with a trigger safety OR people can quit putting lights on their guns and pointing them at everyone but that isn’t going to happen!
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Very well stated. For me, the big one was the school resource officer bending slightly at the waist and getting a UD. It's all there on camera. And we all know what the left does when this happens on school grounds. It's a bad look for us to defend a company that won't accept that they made an unsafe gun, simply because of a "ford vs. chevy" mentality.

I've loved S&W since I was 10. But if this happened to them and they doubled-down instead of recalling, I'd never buy a Smith again for as long as I lived. For me, it isn't that the gun is junk (and calling the P320 "garbage" is an insult to garbage) it's the attitude of the company. They refuse to put their pride aside.

Worse still, it's the attitude of the Sig fanboys that are defending the company and continuing to send them money, giving them permission to keep making the same mistake again. Funny how none of these fan boys are willing to show a video of themselves AIWB carrying a P320 condition 1, isn't it? But I digress.

Overall, the gun is a problem (even if other Sig products are fine). And the failure of the company and the fan base to do the adult thing and acknowledge the problem, take it on the chin, accept responsibility like adults, recall the model, make it right, etc., speaks volumes. It throws the entire gun community in a bad light. It shows that we're 100% ego, 0% responsibility.

I'll go as far as to call it a leftist mentality. Even when faced with hard evidence, the inability to change your view and accept the truth is a TOTAL leftist trait. I never thought it would happen on our side, yet here we are, watching videos of P320's going off in school yards, and the fans are blaming the holsters, blaming the cops, blaming the relative humidity, blaming the phase of the moon.. blaming everything but SIG, which is who SHOULD be blamed, and that frankly disgusts me.

Even though some legendary models are perfectly fine (like the P226) I'll never own one out of principal. I cannot and will not support a company that won't stand behind their products through thick and thin, and this is a VERY thin time for Sig indeed. I don't care who's feelings I hurt. I care about facts, and these are the facts. Period.
 
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ECS686 said:
The Glock Leg was a learning curve
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They also started offering aftermarket heavy drop-in trigger springs to address that problem. I served as a local police reserve when that was happening, and when we got our duty guns (reserves had to buy them ourselves) we were given the new spring kits on qualification day and had to put them in ourselves before we qualified. Fun times!! I think my G22 ended up with a 12lb trigger... if I remember correctly. It was brutal, but no more "Glock legs" ever again.
 
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