testtest

What a Red Dot Sight Won’t Do for You

I find I get more hits on target quickly with my dot. At three yards I simply shoot from my waist and don't even really was the pistol. What I will say about the dot that was noticeable for me. When I started using an optic while shooting steel with the boys not only did my speed improve but so did my accuracy. This improved accuracy was noticeable when going back to sights. I like my Dots although not every gun has one.
 
At three yards I simply shoot from my waist elbow tight to body and don't even really raise the gun. Hopefully this makes more sense
 
IMG_2903.jpeg
 
KillerFord1977 said:
View attachment 114232
Click to expand...
Not sure what this montage relates to the topic, so rather than assume or guess I'll ask, what is the point?

I can detect it is a product of AN-I, It's an attractive lady wearing her warrior face. Her one handed and two handed grip appear good. Body position, head position, range gear all pretty good. I would take a small issue with her retracted/retention firing body position in the far right photo. Her upper body is rotated clockwise, handgun rotated clockwise (to prevent a malfunction) and wrist against ribcage for retention. That is an acceptable position that works with the attire she is wearing. An improvement is to rotate the upper body counterclockwise with the forearm braced against the ribcage. That puts the handgun a bit forward yet close to the body and avoids any function interference with heaver clothing, vest, body armor, etc.

I have a major issue with her trigger finger along the frame in all of the photos. It's quite apparent her handgun is on target in the firing position alignment. Her trigger finger should be on the trigger!

I would also add, she appears to be fit, mentally prepared for battle and is most likely an accomplished shooter.

I would be most interested in why you posted this montage?
 
Eagle Six said:
Not sure what this montage relates to the topic, so rather than assume or guess I'll ask, what is the point?

I can detect it is a product of AN-I, It's an attractive lady wearing her warrior face. Her one handed and two handed grip appear good. Body position, head position, range gear all pretty good. I would take a small issue with her retracted/retention firing body position in the far right photo. Her upper body is rotated clockwise, handgun rotated clockwise (to prevent a malfunction) and wrist against ribcage for retention. That is an acceptable position that works with the attire she is wearing. An improvement is to rotate the upper body counterclockwise with the forearm braced against the ribcage. That puts the handgun a bit forward yet close to the body and avoids any function interference with heaver clothing, vest, body armor, etc.

I have a major issue with her trigger finger along the frame in all of the photos. It's quite apparent her handgun is on target in the firing position alignment. Her trigger finger should be on the trigger!

I would also add, she appears to be fit, mentally prepared for battle and is most likely an accomplished shooter.

I would be most interested in why you posted this montage?
Click to expand...
It is the NRA guide to shooting positions. Relates to southtexas comment of ahoot from the hip.
Relates to proper technique as well
 
Eagle Six said:
Not sure what this montage relates to the topic, so rather than assume or guess I'll ask, what is the point?

I can detect it is a product of AN-I, It's an attractive lady wearing her warrior face. Her one handed and two handed grip appear good. Body position, head position, range gear all pretty good. I would take a small issue with her retracted/retention firing body position in the far right photo. Her upper body is rotated clockwise, handgun rotated clockwise (to prevent a malfunction) and wrist against ribcage for retention. That is an acceptable position that works with the attire she is wearing. An improvement is to rotate the upper body counterclockwise with the forearm braced against the ribcage. That puts the handgun a bit forward yet close to the body and avoids any function interference with heaver clothing, vest, body armor, etc.

I have a major issue with her trigger finger along the frame in all of the photos. It's quite apparent her handgun is on target in the firing position alignment. Her trigger finger should be on the trigger!

I would also add, she appears to be fit, mentally prepared for battle and is most likely an accomplished shooter.

I would be most interested in why you posted this montage?
Click to expand...
You have a major issue with everything. This pic is an official NRA shooting guide. Take it up with NRA
 
HayesGreener said:
I refuse to train novices using lasers or dots. I want them to learn to use iron sights first. Dots are not a crutch, they are an enhancer when used properly.

Having attended LEO RDS for duty pistols instructor courses with fellow LEO instructors, the general consensus was that the presentation of the gun is key to finding the dot quickly. But then that is true with irons as well. I am now convinced that training with optic mounted pistols improves your iron sight performance due to improved presentation of the pistol technique.

I have put many thousands of rounds through several pistols with optics. It is an acquired skill. I am still experimenting with which size, shape, and brightness of dot is best for me but am coming down to a smaller dot. I think it is essential to have iron sights visible and co witnessed with the dot in the event the optic fails. Dots require training and practice,just like irons. Many are frustrated with the dot because they have not mastered the presentation or focal point. Keep working at it and it will fall into place.

I am of the old school in defensive shooting, which is get multiple solid hits center mass in a hurry and forget about hitting the "X". That was a big paradigm shift for this old war horse brought up on revolvers shooting for the X on the PPC. Save the "X" for competition. I remind folks of the Rule of 3's. Most lethal encounters are at 3 yards or less, 3 shots are fired, and it is over in 3 seconds or less.

I have discovered that I am capable of greater precision with iron sights, but much faster getting multiple hits center mass when using the dot. Precision shooting is still important and I practice hostage rescue drills every week to keep that part sharp. And now and again take it out to 100 yards.

Ultimately, a balance of speed, power, and accuracy wins the day and use whatever gives you an edge.
Click to expand...
Had to use a 1911 in Vietnam to shoot a VC at less than 20 feet. Prior to Vietnam I was on a division pistol team in Germany. I was a pretty good shooter but bullseye shooting didn't really prepare me for my encounter. I fired 7 rounds with only 2 hits. Have a bad case of dry eyes use eye drops through out the day. My failing eyesight made it hard to focus on the front sight. Going to dot optics brought me back to being a much better shooter. Of course there was a large learning curve to overcome before I felt confident to use them on my EDC pistols. Might add co-witnessing iron sights to me are very important should my optic fail and I do practice shooting with the irons.
 
rcurtner said:
Had to use a 1911 in Vietnam to shoot a VC at less than 20 feet. Prior to Vietnam I was on a division pistol team in Germany. I was a pretty good shooter but bullseye shooting didn't really prepare me for my encounter. I fired 7 rounds with only 2 hits. Have a bad case of dry eyes use eye drops through out the day. My failing eyesight made it hard to focus on the front sight. Going to dot optics brought me back to being a much better shooter. Of course there was a large learning curve to overcome before I felt confident to use them on my EDC pistols. Might add co-witnessing iron sights to me are very important should my optic fail and I do practice shooting with the irons.
Click to expand...
Forgot to add like SimonRL put a white line on the hood of optics for another option.
 
Funny I just had a conversation by text this morning with John Hearne on optics.

I personally don’t get why the Red Dot crowd has such disdain for the iron sight crowd. It’s more about individual abilities.

And peoples arguments on “better groups” if it cuts your group by 2 inches at 25 yards the guy is probably dead wether iron or dot. A Holsters and plate (kit) equipment manufacturer went on a rant on FB griping about some “Fudd” who was grumpy as he wanted a non optic and WML holster and this company doesn’t offer them.

This manufacturer (who has great content and I like) then went on to post the pic I included as “proof” on the superiority of optics.
I don’t think anyone wants to take a group by the iron sighted gun below either.

My gripe with Optics and what John said is the same

A lot of stuff has to work for them to work
-Optic Electronics
-Optic Mounts
-Optic Batteries
-Presentation from the holster or ready to the eye and one handed sort of sucks

Are there Advantages? YES
Are there disadvantages? YES
It takes a pretty good shooter to take advantage of an Optic and a pretty good shooter can run Irons

If it helps you go from not hitting the target to a playing card hole at 15 yards great. If you have eye issues and they help you great
But this broad brush because they are minuscule amount faster or tighter is it enouhh to make a difference in a fight?

I will also add as a almost retired for gold LE firearms trainer most kine staff will not train or practice enouhh to capitalize the benefits of Optics most on this forum are not in that category but trust me most cops are lazy and don’t go to the range until they have to qualify and even then they buck.

They also don’t take care of their gear so issuing an optic xoukd hinder “that guy” on the department a local 150 man agency went to optics a few years ago
I know one of their instructors well and he complained to me it’s the same dudes that had issues 10 years ago showing up to qualify and “I can’t find
My dot” because they never changed batteries

I am old enough in the revolvwr days unless hih could shoot a certain score and proficiency or you weren’t allowed to have Magnum ammo or graduate to a 1911 or new wonder 9mm because well those were enthusiasts things.

In the gun owners community it’s the same deal the ones that won’t take a class or practice once a month let alone weekly are the same ones that will
Slap an Optic on and think they are good because well the industry said they are awesome

A 5 yard rohndup with right par times will show the world if an optic is just as good as irons for them so maybe the Optics fan should look at that before judgement on an iron guy
 

Attachments

  • IMG_3765.jpeg
    IMG_3765.jpeg
    147.6 KB · Views: 60
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top