LDB
Master Class
Oh, bad us, we're so awful, we should have handed over the participation trophy with effusive congratulations on his fine job participating and hoped his feelings were boosted.
What would YOU have done?
- Thread starter Aged_Cheddar
- Start date
PieterCoetzee
Professional
And thats exactly what I expected. Your response proves what I was saying. Its got nothing to do with the OPs feelings but then you knew that OR perhaps its your feelings that were hurt? You know Im right about this, which is why you responded like you did
Theres been a lot of mostly good advice here. Theres nothing wrong with phrases like "next time" or "you might want to consider". Hes knows it didnt end well, and could have been worse, could still be worse. What he should have done is behind him, what you would have done is irrelevant
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Mr.W.
Professional
Thank you, you beat me to the punch!
some folks. . .
Retired Bum
Master Class
@PieterCoetzee
Tucson has over 500k in population and nearly double that in the surrounding municipal area. We've had the calls for homicidal mentally ill folks to they didn't get my order right in the drive through at a burger place, true story. The emergency service number is overloaded with stuff that should go to the non emergency number.
Second, I shudder when I see a post like this, because the Internet is the last place to come for advice regarding a legal plan. You don't get financial support at your garage, and you don't want mechanical advice from the cashier at Walmart.
I don't know the location of the OP, nor the laws and procedures for this particular location. A call to a non emergency number will start the ball rolling in the Dept's direction and create a trail to follow in a Court, should it come to that.
Your experience and location might be different, and that is fine, there's not one right or wrong answer to the OP in this case.
My apologies for the rant...
Tucson has over 500k in population and nearly double that in the surrounding municipal area. We've had the calls for homicidal mentally ill folks to they didn't get my order right in the drive through at a burger place, true story. The emergency service number is overloaded with stuff that should go to the non emergency number.
Second, I shudder when I see a post like this, because the Internet is the last place to come for advice regarding a legal plan. You don't get financial support at your garage, and you don't want mechanical advice from the cashier at Walmart.
I don't know the location of the OP, nor the laws and procedures for this particular location. A call to a non emergency number will start the ball rolling in the Dept's direction and create a trail to follow in a Court, should it come to that.
Your experience and location might be different, and that is fine, there's not one right or wrong answer to the OP in this case.
My apologies for the rant...
LDB
Master Class
Yes, what I'd do is irrelevant. And I wouldn't comment. Until the other party specifically asks "What would you have done?". Out of curiosity, which sleeve do you wear your feelings on?
PieterCoetzee
Professional
Yeah I figured you wouldnt let it drop. I wasnt targeting YOU or any one particular post. The OP was pretty clearly looking for advice (whether the internet is a good place to find it is another issue; but responses like this pretty clearly show the need to sift through the comments). After Action criticisms arent advice, they are keyboard muscle flexing. So if it soothes your keyboard honor all the hindsight suggestions were good too.
Im sure the OP wishes all those hindsight suggestions had been whispered in his ear when the action was actually taking place. Im even sure hes a better person for having heard your review of his actions. Ill even bet a shinny quarter that he just might take all that advice, if it happens again. Im just not sure its helpful for the OP moving forward.
For anyone not getting this, Ill try this analogy, what youre doing is blaming the victim, for dressing too sexy, and drinking alone in a bar that shes never been to before and leaving her drink on the bar when she went to the rest room. Yep he asked "What would you have done" but I bet it was at least a little bit rhetorical. He had an "EVENT" and now has to move forward, not relive his mistakes
The guy made a few mistakes, he acknowledges them. He became defensive when two men yelled at his wife, after they saw someone taking two parking places, when he knew they had a car full of groceries. Yep I bet he wishes they lived someplace else and Im sure he wishes they parked in another place and turned their head away from the guy in the car so he wouldnt be upset that they saw him. Yep all those things BUT he didnt do them.
Now Im wondering which of you guys wouldnt have been upset when some stranger started yelling in a threatening tone at YOUR wife? And what your wife would have thought of you if you cowed at the threat. Women are often smarter then men (its a self defense tool); but they also see who are protectors and who cow at threats.
Should he have attacked them-NO of course not; but I think we can all recognize his passion (if youthful and misplaced), when faced with the aggression. Much like I have been try do suggest, maybe calming tones might better prevail in the future (backed by a ready lethal response).
All Im suggesting is the the comments be constructive
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Retired Bum
Master Class
This is a situation where constructive was intended by all, yet remains to the eye of the beholder. Sometimes worse than political issues.
Mr.W.
Professional
Really? Is this guy serious?
WellArmed
Custom
We are helping. The OP asked for opinions, and we gave our opinions. Telling the unfiltered truth so that someone won't put themselves, their loved ones, or others in harms way is helping. Telling people what they want to hear or sugarcoating the truth and reality isn't helping. We all are older adult men here, so we don't need our hands held. I do the same with my children. When they did something stupid and self-destructive, I'd tell them without sugarcoating it what the repercussions could be. I'd rather they hear it from me than have to hear it from a judge, prison guard, or parole office. People can listen, or they can ignore the advice.
If I'm doing something wrong, I'd rather have friends and family who call me out and check my behavior rather than people who coddle me so that I'm not offended by the truth.
If I'm doing something wrong, I'd rather have friends and family who call me out and check my behavior rather than people who coddle me so that I'm not offended by the truth.
PieterCoetzee
Professional
No one said sugar coat or saying what they want to hear. Where did you read that? Ive been trying to be diplomatic because when I "talked" like you guys are doing now, you said I was condescending; but I guess it doesnt work both ways. You arent helping you are preaching (yep I heard that before too)
Nothing you said, is so much wrong, as its not being said so that is helpful. You can still be a He Man SWAT Master or whatever and say much the same things but have your knowledge be receptive with just a bit less attitude.
What I said was that phrases like "should have" and "I wouldnt have" are not constructive and not phrased to be receptive, remember what you guys said about condescending. Despite the What would you have done title, its pretty clear that the post was asking for help NOT for being told what he did was wrong. Ive said this several times but apparently thats not being read. At this point I can type slower if that helps (see thats condescending)
Im sure your children have a great dad; but I also wonder if you talk to them like you have here, how really receptive they are to the words Sorry I tried not to make it personal but you brought them in to the conversation. You can tell them there will be repercussions if they do something wrong OR you can guide them so they wont do it. Do you say if you dont make your bed you cant have ice cream OR remember you only get ice cream if you make your bed? Hopefully you can see the distinction, and THAT is what Im saying. The carrot works so much better than the stick
I keep saying the OP was asking for help (and I think how to proceed) not for what he did wrong, he acknowledged those mistakes. Instead of saying "I would have", you might consider, "maybe next time try this". It gets you to the same point; but without sounding like a huge.....
Guys Im not trying to pick a fight although the sparing has been fun. Im merely suggest HOW you say things matter and also how you LISTEN (in this case read because you sure didnt read what I said). If youre still upset then youre not getting it.
Nothing you said, is so much wrong, as its not being said so that is helpful. You can still be a He Man SWAT Master or whatever and say much the same things but have your knowledge be receptive with just a bit less attitude.
What I said was that phrases like "should have" and "I wouldnt have" are not constructive and not phrased to be receptive, remember what you guys said about condescending. Despite the What would you have done title, its pretty clear that the post was asking for help NOT for being told what he did was wrong. Ive said this several times but apparently thats not being read. At this point I can type slower if that helps (see thats condescending)
Im sure your children have a great dad; but I also wonder if you talk to them like you have here, how really receptive they are to the words Sorry I tried not to make it personal but you brought them in to the conversation. You can tell them there will be repercussions if they do something wrong OR you can guide them so they wont do it. Do you say if you dont make your bed you cant have ice cream OR remember you only get ice cream if you make your bed? Hopefully you can see the distinction, and THAT is what Im saying. The carrot works so much better than the stick
I keep saying the OP was asking for help (and I think how to proceed) not for what he did wrong, he acknowledged those mistakes. Instead of saying "I would have", you might consider, "maybe next time try this". It gets you to the same point; but without sounding like a huge.....
Guys Im not trying to pick a fight although the sparing has been fun. Im merely suggest HOW you say things matter and also how you LISTEN (in this case read because you sure didnt read what I said). If youre still upset then youre not getting it.
The Night Rider
Hellcat
Aged_Cheddar
Operator
Bingo!
Aged_Cheddar
Operator
Anyway, there has been some really good advice in this thread, and maybe some that was more a criticism than suggestion..to each there own.
Allow me to elaborate, I'm not a kid, I'm in my 50's, plenty of lessons learned, and some taught, I've also acknowledged being wrong...many, many times over the years. People make mistakes, but mine in this case DID NOT justify the over the top hostile response from these two...people.
Do I have ego? Yep, due to testosterone, many men suffer from this terrible affliction, the only cure is to get older or get estrogen treatment...I'm going to go ahead and just let mine age out.
I did make some mistakes in this particular situation, Ego was certainly a contributing factor (after the fact...not before), but when a clearly aggressive man asks my wife if she wants a problem, I'm certainly not tucking tail, and neither would anyone else I would think...
The issue here is that this was a situation was caused by me asking her to grab that plate, HOWEVER there was NO need for either of these "gentlemen" to act with such hostility...
And I do resent being called a parking lot Karen... I did exactly what our damn property manager has asks ALL residents to do verbatim, they ask for the plate and pic, because white Camry is a little vague...we have a parking issue in this complex, but these two clearly didn't get the memo...probably too high.
All this said, I chatted with the complex manager today, and she let us know this tenant is moving next month (and apparently that tenant complained about me too FFS...seriously???), so I'm going to try and keep my head down until then.
Thanks again for the advice peeps!
Allow me to elaborate, I'm not a kid, I'm in my 50's, plenty of lessons learned, and some taught, I've also acknowledged being wrong...many, many times over the years. People make mistakes, but mine in this case DID NOT justify the over the top hostile response from these two...people.
Do I have ego? Yep, due to testosterone, many men suffer from this terrible affliction, the only cure is to get older or get estrogen treatment...I'm going to go ahead and just let mine age out.
I did make some mistakes in this particular situation, Ego was certainly a contributing factor (after the fact...not before), but when a clearly aggressive man asks my wife if she wants a problem, I'm certainly not tucking tail, and neither would anyone else I would think...
The issue here is that this was a situation was caused by me asking her to grab that plate, HOWEVER there was NO need for either of these "gentlemen" to act with such hostility...
And I do resent being called a parking lot Karen... I did exactly what our damn property manager has asks ALL residents to do verbatim, they ask for the plate and pic, because white Camry is a little vague...we have a parking issue in this complex, but these two clearly didn't get the memo...probably too high.
All this said, I chatted with the complex manager today, and she let us know this tenant is moving next month (and apparently that tenant complained about me too FFS...seriously???), so I'm going to try and keep my head down until then.
Thanks again for the advice peeps!
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The Night Rider
Hellcat
Clearly, they disagree with you and they have a say.
Getting your *** beat enough times will cure it too.
But, don't forget you ended up there because you ran your mouth in the first place and got involved in something that was none of your business.
Maybe remember this incident the next time you want your wife to write down a plate number.
NGL, I'm fairly certain that we're being trolled here but in general both of those gentlemen clearly disagreed with you
Aged_Cheddar
Operator
Weird that even with my apparent ego overload, I wouldn't have reacted that way.
We're still working on that.
As I stated it was my mouth, I wasn't denying it.
If I had known there was a dude in the car I would of just said "hey you're in two spots" and walked on by...If I had known either of these dudes were going to go full rage mode, maybe we'd have done something different... but the fact is I didn't know, and I can't go back and fix it, so...
TBH I don't care if you think you're being trolled, you're not. but you go ahead and assume what you'd like, it is in fact a free country...for the moment.
And you god damn right we disagreed, we took a picture of a plate, and got a dis-proportionat response... So, a picture of a car is grounds for threatening a woman? Interesting position, I'd call the person asking my wife if she "wants a problem" a coward with a gun, I guess you and I will have to disagree on that point.
WellArmed
Custom
Yes, that's the problem with many youth and men today. It's why they can't cope in the real world. Why they can't handle it when they hear things they don't like or that may offend them. Why they overreact when they do. It's because they've been coddled their whole life.
I raised 5 law-abiding, self-sufficient, responsible adults. I have a 16-year-old still at home. FYI, that's 6 children. I'm almost 12 years older than my younger sister. My mother divorced while she was still young. My mother was in the military at that time, and we were stationed in different places. I helped raise my sister, too. To answer your question, if I told them to make their beds and they didn't listen, I'd tell them what the consequences of their actions will be. Period. I hold them accountable just like they will be in the real world if they don't listen to their employer, law enforcement, etc. They aren't stupid. They understand English perfectly. I fully explain what the rules are. If they choose not to follow the rules, the consequences they face will "guide them" to make the right decision next time around.
The OP asked what we would do and wanted opinions on the topic. He posted on an open forum, so whether you or he likes it or not, other members are free to give their opinions about what they would do and what the OP did wrong.
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Aged_Cheddar
Operator
I sure hope this wasn't targeted at me...I too was raised by a single Mom, and I have worked my *** off for what I have...Life's hard, you get lemons, make lemonade. But I sure as Hell haven't been coddled.
You're absolutely right, I did post to a public forum, asking opinions, and you have some that I read and clearly understood, I haven't been combative toward you, and appreciate that people have taken the time to engage in my questions, good or bad.
The reason I posted here is that this is a gun-centric forum, full of current/retired police and some military, all of which have been trained to have cooler heads in tough situations etc..., I figured I could learn from that... Milk was dumped on the floor, and instead of getting suggestions for clean up procedures, I instead have been told to just not dump the milk...DUH!
My post clearly outlined I believe I was in the wrong, it also acknowledged my ego as one of my issues, so pointing those things out now doesn't offer any assistance, quite the contrary. What seems to be getting missed here is that I was more asking how you guys would have dealt with the situation AFTER it had already been escalated...
Telling me to "mind my own business" was not the answer... Of course looking back at it I should have said nothing...No ****, but here we are.
Lets just assume all of the cool heads in here magically had a bad day and did what I did, and the result of that decision brought about what these two guys did & said... With that now clearly defined, how would you have handled them threatening your wife? How would you have handled the dude who seemed Hell bent on confrontation? How would you have proceeded after the situation (called police etc...)?
Again, I have acknowledged that I made mistakes here, but my ego had ZERO to do with getting into the situation, my ego only became an issue after threats were made toward my wife... A man threatening a man is ego etc...(dick measuring contest), but a man threatening a woman is cowardice. I would have thought the difference would have been obvious.
PieterCoetzee
Professional
You really have misunderstood me. Its not about people not being able to cope in the real world, because they got their feelings hurt-(I think we agree on that).
Its about how to get people to "hear" you. Its the difference between your wife screaming "get off the couch and cut the grass" OR "Honey we're having a Bar B Que on Saturday, please make sure the lawn is nice". Which one are you likely to react well toooo?.. Its your boss saying "if you dont write enough tickets you dont get leave next month" OR 'Guys lets pick up the enforcement, Im getting calls from HGtrs" BOTH want the same results but which one gets the best reception.
I had a buddy "on the job" that used to call people a$$h***s but hed laugh when he said and they thought it was funny, as opposed to saying "youre an a$$h**e" And if youre STILL not getting it, its about how to manipulate people to get them to hear what you need.
It took me a long time to realize THAT (and I still slip). I spent too many hours in the ER with lockups (and me) because the wrong thing was said and a fight started. Once "I got it" and learned how to talk to people (including my bosses) things got easier.
For the guys that are stuck on the "Ill say it however I want". So be it but remember two things FIRST you complained about me doing that and TWO nobody wants to hear you when you talk like that (sound familiar)