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When Facts Don’t Matter

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benstt

Professional
Founding Member
I do take some issue with that article. Every generation looks at the next and thinks they're soft or lazy or some such thing. I didnt grow up in the 60s or 70s but I assume the WW2 generation looked down on music, protests, and antiwar sentiment.

Criticize millenials and gen z for some of their ideals and naivety and that would be fair, but that generation is getting screwed. It's not hard to see why kids who grow up in fear of being shot at school react strongly, especially when no one has any answers to it or any solution other than the meaningless "thoughts and prayers."

Economically, they are coming of age at a time when education, housing, and health care expenses grow way faster than does income and at a time when social security might become insolvent and pensions are almost nonexistent. They saw just how willing Wall Street is to bend them over a barrel in their youth and kids coming out of college near the crash in 2008 might never recover from not bring able to find work for years. It's no stretch to see why they think capitalism has failed them and are willing to explore socialism. Plus, we have a lot of socialist programs already that we all rely on.

As to facts not mattering, the level of nonsense issuing forth from various members of government is unreal, as is all the mind numbing spin. That isn't new to millenials and gen z.

A critique of their arrogance is fair, and of most of the "woke" nonsense, but we really should also understand why they react the way they do. A lot of their concerns are valid.
 

Mr.W.

Elite
Founding Member
Informative read. I have mirrored the theory of this article for years. I believe all the misinformed, misaligned, misguided youngsters are as dangerous as some of this country's politicians. Standing for, preaching about concepts they don't begin to understand. Voting for individuals and ideals because they feel they're pretty or cool. Terribly disheartening.
 

ScottJ

Professional
Founding Member
When I first started working at a local high school, I mentioned to the principal one day how misbehaved some of the kids were, the ones that were always in trouble. He made a statement (paraphrased) that stuck with me to this day:
"You wonder why a kid acts the way he does.........and then you meet the parents."
 

Wirenut

Professional
When both parents work and want to be your child's friend rather than the parent.
The give them anything they want and when they finally come out of the basement from playing call of duty they whine because they have school debt, because they picked the wrong field and can't find a job.
Here's a tip take a loan pay it back like an adult.
Along come socialist candidates that say I will forgive your debt, give you a $1000 a month and give you free health care these non thinking sheeple will follow the liars.
 

Tenbones

Master Class
Founding Member
Informative read. I have mirrored the theory of this article for years. I believe all the misinformed, misaligned, misguided youngsters are as dangerous as some of this country's politicians. Standing for, preaching about concepts they don't begin to understand. Voting for individuals and ideals because they feel they're pretty or cool. Terribly disheartening.

Part of the problem is that some of these misinformed, misaligned, misquided youngsters grow up to become politicians.
 

southtex

Custom
Founding Member
I don't find my children or their friends to be like this and it appears he doesn't care much for people with differing opinions. I find it insulting that he labels a group of people ignorant. Truth be told I doubt very few of us still hang on to our ideas of our 20's. I know (61 now) I D*** sure don't.
 

BET7

Hellcat
Founding Member
I do take some issue with that article. Every generation looks at the next and thinks they're soft or lazy or some such thing. I didnt grow up in the 60s or 70s but I assume the WW2 generation looked down on music, protests, and antiwar sentiment.

Criticize millenials and gen z for some of their ideals and naivety and that would be fair, but that generation is getting screwed. It's not hard to see why kids who grow up in fear of being shot at school react strongly, especially when no one has any answers to it or any solution other than the meaningless "thoughts and prayers."

Economically, they are coming of age at a time when education, housing, and health care expenses grow way faster than does income and at a time when social security might become insolvent and pensions are almost nonexistent. They saw just how willing Wall Street is to bend them over a barrel in their youth and kids coming out of college near the crash in 2008 might never recover from not bring able to find work for years. It's no stretch to see why they think capitalism has failed them and are willing to explore socialism. Plus, we have a lot of socialist programs already that we all rely on.

As to facts not mattering, the level of nonsense issuing forth from various members of government is unreal, as is all the mind numbing spin. That isn't new to millenials and gen z.

A critique of their arrogance is fair, and of most of the "woke" nonsense, but we really should also understand why they react the way they do. A lot of their concerns are valid.
I tend to agree benstt, I'm of the Baby Boomer generation, and my parents constantly derided me of my long hair, loud music noise, apparent laziness, etc. I've come to the conclusion, like you mentioned, that older generations sometimes seem to look down and criticize younger generations. Mine was filled with "long haired Hippy Freaks" that weren't patriotic because they protested the Vietnam war, took drug and talked about rebellion (which came through in our music). Now, this same generation is involved in government, split with conservatives and liberals. When I was younger, I wanted the government to take care of my needs, now I'd like them out of my business. The things you learn as you age. School shootings are more prevalent today, but I think each generation goes through their own crisis. I my time, there were several radical groups, some that did kidnappings and bombings. And you worried about being drafted into the Vietnam war. The early 80's had a bad recession (not as bad as 2008), that saw job losses and 16% intrest rate on mortgages (I know because that what I paid on my 1st house at age 25). Currently, we are only seeing/hearing the most outspoken of the current younger generation, and I'm sure there are quieter conservative types out there that disagree with those mentioned in the article. But two items are a concern. One is knowing that if you want the government to "solve the problems facing them today", that takes money and it's going to come by having ordinary people pay for it (did I mention I want government out of my business). And two, the lack of education, especially in the historical deparment is somewhat alarming. I have younger generation family members that haven't even heard of Vietnam, let alone know we were at war with them. My generation, did know about WWI, WWII, and Korean wars. I fear "Those who fail to learn from history are condemned to repeat it" Winston Churchill. Like it or not, this younger generation will grow and take up leadership positions in government, industry, the scientific arena, etc. They're going to have to learn to work with all generations that came before and after, and try to solve the complex issues it will most certainly face. Much the same way my generations is now, notwhithstanding whether it's succeeding or failing at it.
 

BET7

Hellcat
Founding Member
I'm a Baby Boomer also, and I consider it the "worst" generation and cause of most of the problems the country has today.
Well I'm sure some of the "Greatest Generation" felt the same way about us. Only history will tell in the long run, what generation had it right and which had it wrong. But that's just my opinion, you have yours and that's fine and appreciated, let's hope that the problems that are being caused can be corrected.
 

benstt

Professional
Founding Member
I tend to agree benstt, I'm of the Baby Boomer generation, and my parents constantly derided me of my long hair, loud music noise, apparent laziness, etc. I've come to the conclusion, like you mentioned, that older generations sometimes seem to look down and criticize younger generations. Mine was filled with "long haired Hippy Freaks" that weren't patriotic because they protested the Vietnam war, took drug and talked about rebellion (which came through in our music). Now, this same generation is involved in government, split with conservatives and liberals. When I was younger, I wanted the government to take care of my needs, now I'd like them out of my business. The things you learn as you age. School shootings are more prevalent today, but I think each generation goes through their own crisis. I my time, there were several radical groups, some that did kidnappings and bombings. And you worried about being drafted into the Vietnam war. The early 80's had a bad recession (not as bad as 2008), that saw job losses and 16% intrest rate on mortgages (I know because that what I paid on my 1st house at age 25). Currently, we are only seeing/hearing the most outspoken of the current younger generation, and I'm sure there are quieter conservative types out there that disagree with those mentioned in the article. But two items are a concern. One is knowing that if you want the government to "solve the problems facing them today", that takes money and it's going to come by having ordinary people pay for it (did I mention I want government out of my business). And two, the lack of education, especially in the historical deparment is somewhat alarming. I have younger generation family members that haven't even heard of Vietnam, let alone know we were at war with them. My generation, did know about WWI, WWII, and Korean wars. I fear "Those who fail to learn from history are condemned to repeat it" Winston Churchill. Like it or not, this younger generation will grow and take up leadership positions in government, industry, the scientific arena, etc. They're going to have to learn to work with all generations that came before and after, and try to solve the complex issues it will most certainly face. Much the same way my generations is now, notwhithstanding whether it's succeeding or failing at it.
I totally agree that they don't know anything about history. It's tragic. I'd love to get schools to actually teach things like history and civics again. I've heard, but can't confirm, that the majority of Americans can't name the three branches of government. Ignorance is a problem. I also think we need to get physical education back in all schools, but that's a rant for a different day.
 

benstt

Professional
Founding Member
I tend to agree benstt, I'm of the Baby Boomer generation, and my parents constantly derided me of my long hair, loud music noise, apparent laziness, etc. I've come to the conclusion, like you mentioned, that older generations sometimes seem to look down and criticize younger generations. Mine was filled with "long haired Hippy Freaks" that weren't patriotic because they protested the Vietnam war, took drug and talked about rebellion (which came through in our music). Now, this same generation is involved in government, split with conservatives and liberals. When I was younger, I wanted the government to take care of my needs, now I'd like them out of my business. The things you learn as you age. School shootings are more prevalent today, but I think each generation goes through their own crisis. I my time, there were several radical groups, some that did kidnappings and bombings. And you worried about being drafted into the Vietnam war. The early 80's had a bad recession (not as bad as 2008), that saw job losses and 16% intrest rate on mortgages (I know because that what I paid on my 1st house at age 25). Currently, we are only seeing/hearing the most outspoken of the current younger generation, and I'm sure there are quieter conservative types out there that disagree with those mentioned in the article. But two items are a concern. One is knowing that if you want the government to "solve the problems facing them today", that takes money and it's going to come by having ordinary people pay for it (did I mention I want government out of my business). And two, the lack of education, especially in the historical deparment is somewhat alarming. I have younger generation family members that haven't even heard of Vietnam, let alone know we were at war with them. My generation, did know about WWI, WWII, and Korean wars. I fear "Those who fail to learn from history are condemned to repeat it" Winston Churchill. Like it or not, this younger generation will grow and take up leadership positions in government, industry, the scientific arena, etc. They're going to have to learn to work with all generations that came before and after, and try to solve the complex issues it will most certainly face. Much the same way my generations is now, notwhithstanding whether it's succeeding or failing at it.
I'm lucky to have come along before everything changed in public schools so I actually learned things. Like critical thinking, which the younger ones seem to lack. My much younger cousins were not so lucky.
 

Talyn

Ronin
Founding Member
I do take some issue with that article. Every generation looks at the next and thinks they're soft or lazy or some such thing. I didnt grow up in the 60s or 70s but I assume the WW2 generation looked down on music, protests, and antiwar sentiment.

Criticize millenials and gen z for some of their ideals and naivety and that would be fair, but that generation is getting screwed. It's not hard to see why kids who grow up in fear of being shot at school react strongly, especially when no one has any answers to it or any solution other than the meaningless "thoughts and prayers."

Economically, they are coming of age at a time when education, housing, and health care expenses grow way faster than does income and at a time when social security might become insolvent and pensions are almost nonexistent. They saw just how willing Wall Street is to bend them over a barrel in their youth and kids coming out of college near the crash in 2008 might never recover from not bring able to find work for years. It's no stretch to see why they think capitalism has failed them and are willing to explore socialism. Plus, we have a lot of socialist programs already that we all rely on.

As to facts not mattering, the level of nonsense issuing forth from various members of government is unreal, as is all the mind numbing spin. That isn't new to millenials and gen z.

A critique of their arrogance is fair, and of most of the "woke" nonsense, but we really should also understand why they react the way they do. A lot of their concerns are valid.

When I was in public school we weren't allowed to just walk out of school when we had some free time.

When you got off the bus you were there and didn't go outside unless it was recess or PE.

Nowadays the public schools seem to want to foster a college environment where students can come & go when they please.

Plus there are many ways to secure schools (like above) but then someone cries about being "in prison", a and/or denied their claimed right to use their smart phones whenever they please.

Then there's the current system where students are taught to protest and be victims, vs. getting the basic education that they're supposed to get.

My .02
 

somorris

Custom
Founding Member
I am a Boomer also, and I agree. We created an awful lot of the problems we are seeing today as we benefit from having learned from life's lessons.

I see posts like Mr. Hogg, etc. and think we are doomed. Then I talk to another young person who has their head on straight, and think maybe all is not lost after all :).
 
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