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When Is Using Your CCW a Mistake?

Some good advice here. It's always best to avoid trouble if at all possible. I often get the question from students, "can't I just show them my gun or point it in their direction?" My answer is a resounding NOOOOOOOOOO! In Florida, you may very well find yourself being charged with aggravated assault or exhibiting a weapon "in a rude, careless, angry, or threatening manner, and not in necessary self-defense.” Unless you are justified in USING deadly force, you can't THREATEN deadly force. Once you have pulled the gun, you are out of other options. In simple terms, if you are not going to shoot it, don't pull it.
 

TidalWave

Custom
I hope articles like these are noticed by folks waffling about getting a gun, or CCW permit, or actually carrying. Not everyone has the right mindset for it. Not that those people are dumb or bad, or anything else diminishing - but you need to be the type that more or less “stays on their toes”. I’ve said it before: if you can’t maintain Situational Awareness, you just don’t need to be carrying, CCW or otherwise. Guns as sweeping trend or ‘fashion statement’ (whatever that is) is liable to eventually lead us to far more serious GC than we’re facing now - only, it may be legit at that point.
Just my .02…
 

TidalWave

Custom
Some good advice here. It's always best to avoid trouble if at all possible. I often get the question from students, "can't I just show them my gun or point it in their direction?" My answer is a resounding NOOOOOOOOOO! In Florida, you may very well find yourself being charged with aggravated assault or exhibiting a weapon "in a rude, careless, angry, or threatening manner, and not in necessary self-defense.” Unless you are justified in USING deadly force, you can't THREATEN deadly force. Once you have pulled the gun, you are out of other options. In simple terms, if you are not going to shoot it, don't pull it.
Excellent message Hayes.
And those last 3 sentences constitute Rule Number One in most cases. I would hope.
 
Mr. Boyle brings up some valid points and concerns I believe. I've carried now for 28+ years, and thankfully, I've not been in a situation requiring me to use my CCW. Though not LE, I too was adept at and taught Management of Assaultive Behavior to Health Care workers for several years until I left the Health Care Industry in 2001. I still keep up with the changes in techniques. Rather than a Kubotan or other obvious Self Defense tool, I keep a small 4" Crescent Wrench on every set of keys. It can be used to the same effect as a kubotan, but it has the advantage of appearing innocuous in the hand. It also is a lot sturdier than the various plastics.
Situational awareness and avoidance of areas where crime/unrest is also a good habit to develop.

A good essay Mr. Boyle. Thank you.
 

Mr. Untactical

Operator
Founding Member

Mr. Untactical

Operator
Founding Member
Some good advice here. It's always best to avoid trouble if at all possible. I often get the question from students, "can't I just show them my gun or point it in their direction?" My answer is a resounding NOOOOOOOOOO! In Florida, you may very well find yourself being charged with aggravated assault or exhibiting a weapon "in a rude, careless, angry, or threatening manner, and not in necessary self-defense.” Unless you are justified in USING deadly force, you can't THREATEN deadly force. Once you have pulled the gun, you are out of other options. In simple terms, if you are not going to shoot it, don't pull it.
Similar advice to what someone told me long ago (or words to this effect)...

If you draw your firearm, be prepared to use it.
If you use your firearm, use it to shoot.
If you shoot your firearm, shoot to kill (although these days, some may say "shoot to end the fight.")

The moral of the story was once you draw, you better be prepared to go all the way.
 

C. Sumpin

Master Class
Some good advice here. It's always best to avoid trouble if at all possible. I often get the question from students, "can't I just show them my gun or point it in their direction?" My answer is a resounding NOOOOOOOOOO! In Florida, you may very well find yourself being charged with aggravated assault or exhibiting a weapon "in a rude, careless, angry, or threatening manner, and not in necessary self-defense.” Unless you are justified in USING deadly force, you can't THREATEN deadly force. Once you have pulled the gun, you are out of other options. In simple terms, if you are not going to shoot it, don't pull it.
Hayes............Perhaps you were in MP school in 1964.......as to use of the sidearm the instructions were, "if you pull it, you better use it! Draw for show of force or any other reason than to pull the trigger was a huge NO NO.

Since having CCW the effect has been to go to extreme to avoid places/people/situations that would require its use.
Before I began to carry I was rather assertive, did not mind "mixing it up" if provoked. That weight in my pocket has
morphed me into a quiet, polite gentleman that will swing wide of trouble and make an exit if trouble is brewing; the effect on my disposition has done more to keep me safe than the piece itself.
On the other hand, if I'm in a corner, no exit nearby and not given the respect of a choice to excuse myself..........then out she comes and all bets are off.
 

ghosttwofive

Master Class
Good video.
Similar advice to what someone told me long ago (or words to this effect)...

If you draw your firearm, be prepared to use it.
If you use your firearm, use it to shoot.
If you shoot your firearm, shoot to kill (although these days, some may say "shoot to end the fight.")

The moral of the story was once you draw, you better be prepared to go all the way.
Very well put. I'll try for any and all outs from a situation before I think about pulling my firearm. What did Mr. Miyagi say....something to the effect of "Best defense against a punch, don't be there." That's how I try to think about situations. I'm about as boring as a slice of toast as far as my lifestyle and that's the way I like to keep it. Don't put yourself in a bad position to begin with is the best defense imho.
 

bandaidman

Alpha
Founding Member
I agree totally with what you said, I would be interested in what options you have as a senior citizen who may be targeted just because of age, gait, or perceived weakness. I don't need a cane yet and I never was a fighter but I would be concerned as to what someone would have to do to avoid confrontation even after you did all you could do. ie. stay out of "shady" areas, be the gray man, don't try to escalate any verbal confrontation.
 

BobM

Professional
I agree totally with what you said, I would be interested in what options you have as a senior citizen who may be targeted just because of age, gait, or perceived weakness. I don't need a cane yet and I never was a fighter but I would be concerned as to what someone would have to do to avoid confrontation even after you did all you could do. ie. stay out of "shady" areas, be the gray man, don't try to escalate any verbal confrontation.
....avoid bingo night, those ladies are tough and mean! :)
Seriously, act/be confident, know where you've been, where you are and know where you're going helps.
Try to blend in, wearing a 3 piece suit or blue jeans in right or wrong place matters on how a person is treated.
 

the obsrver

Master Class
I treat the who;e concept like the old days in the wild west. Mind your business, take care of your business and if someone decides to be dumb worry about it then. Basically draw when drawn upon. Possibly other situations, but basically if they have a firearm and are doing bad things with it, draw.
IDK if it is accurate, but the movies show people being thrown out of bars and fist fights in the old west all the time, they did not shoot the place up. People had problems with other people back then, difference was everyone was armed, so if you wanted to pull a firearm you were going to get shot back at. So I kind of figure am I prepared to be shot back at? Is whatever it is worth it? If not then I should do something different.
 
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Mr. Untactical

Operator
Founding Member
Good video.

Very well put. I'll try for any and all outs from a situation before I think about pulling my firearm. What did Mr. Miyagi say....something to the effect of "Best defense against a punch, don't be there." That's how I try to think about situations. I'm about as boring as a slice of toast as far as my lifestyle and that's the way I like to keep it. Don't put yourself in a bad position to begin with is the best defense imho.
I like boring. I kind of treat concealed carry like driving... I just assume the other drivers are going to do something stupid and therefor I'm not surprised when they do and already have a plan to avoid them.
 

ChanceMcCall

Master Class
One should be careful to know the rules in each state. My wife can, in KY, carry brass knuckles and a blackjack with her Illinois concealed carry license. In Illinois, carrying those items would be a felony despite the fact she is carrying a gun legally.

Granted that many gun toters are younger males who are able to study and practice martial arts, there are also those of us who despite having studied and learned physical tactics who can no longer run away or win a physical fight without a firearm. Frankly knocking a 70+ year old to the ground could be deadly without any further action. There is the legal principle of matched abilities. I would expect my 5'2" 73 year old wife to still (hopefully) to shoot the aggressor before they could land a punch even if they didn't have a gun. I would also expect our State's Attorney would never charge her with anything.
 

TidalWave

Custom
One should be careful to know the rules in each state. My wife can, in KY, carry brass knuckles and a blackjack with her Illinois concealed carry license. In Illinois, carrying those items would be a felony despite the fact she is carrying a gun legally.

Granted that many gun toters are younger males who are able to study and practice martial arts, there are also those of us who despite having studied and learned physical tactics who can no longer run away or win a physical fight without a firearm. Frankly knocking a 70+ year old to the ground could be deadly without any further action. There is the legal principle of matched abilities. I would expect my 5'2" 73 year old wife to still (hopefully) to shoot the aggressor before they could land a punch even if they didn't have a gun. I would also expect our State's Attorney would never charge her with anything.
Agree with your post….
Also want to say, you’ve hit on a point at the last that’s often overlooked: the SAGs. They need as much watching as the governors and representatives we elect. When it comes to GC, are they looking at potential cases “in the entirety of the circumstances” (to paraphrase Ayoob) or are they looking at them from a political perspective?
 

the obsrver

Master Class
One should be careful to know the rules in each state. My wife can, in KY, carry brass knuckles and a blackjack with her Illinois concealed carry license. In Illinois, carrying those items would be a felony despite the fact she is carrying a gun legally.

Granted that many gun toters are younger males who are able to study and practice martial arts, there are also those of us who despite having studied and learned physical tactics who can no longer run away or win a physical fight without a firearm. Frankly knocking a 70+ year old to the ground could be deadly without any further action. There is the legal principle of matched abilities. I would expect my 5'2" 73 year old wife to still (hopefully) to shoot the aggressor before they could land a punch even if they didn't have a gun. I would also expect our State's Attorney would never charge her with anything.
Yeah idk what happened to respect your elders. I thought the same thing after I typed my response, I am not as young as I once was.
 
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