Onewolf426
Professional
Because it is just silly firing 6 shots and having to reload........
Why Was Hip Shooting Ever A Thing?
- Thread starter BET7
- Start date
Usually they went to their snub aka NY reload. Several guys carried their snub behind their speedloader pouch and went to that j stead of speedloaders. I only heard of one ever needing it though and nobody used a speedloader in my area
Bassbob
Emissary
Well, I'll use this analogy again.
I've never needed a single bullet for a SD situation yet and I'm 55. The odds of me ever needing a single bullet for a SD situation are pretty slim. So why bother carrying a gun at all ?
I also have up to date fire extinguishers lying around. Never needed one. Why bother having them re-filled/brought into compliance ?
Like I say people are more in need of some kind of Pepper spray than a firearm. And the reload is well as far as civilian shootings never been documented. But people worry about it to the point they feel naked without a 17 round wonder micro 9 and a second reload
I’ve know one LEO that went to his snub revolver after shooting his duty revolver dry. I also have an acquaintance that had to use his snub to smoke a BG DRY and this was his 4th on duty shooting so stuff obviously can and will happen. Just be flexible.
The other ones that have been in shootings have shot no more than 8 rounds each most less! But there is a small chance of a Bank of America shootout or Norco etc
Snake45
Professional
Chairman Jeff answered this question several decades ago. Near as I can recall it after all these years, it went something like: "Statistics are uninteresting to the man caught in the exceptional circumstance. The person being eaten by a bear does not want to know just how extremely rare such attacks actually are."
KillerFord1977
SAINT
Or the guy on drugs that the Sheriff had to shoot a dozen times at the road intersection hitting him with a stick. Never know.
A Rodney King type incident, and you’ll need a reload if 30 surround your car instantly.
I believe your case was the gray hairs guy at a stop sign and a guy in a car right there filmed it?
Not to be disrespectful but in all those cases it’s lack of a CNS or Upper Thoracic aortic area hit. Platt in the Miami shooting had like 14 gunshot wounds and zero of his upper torso. A pic of him laying with IVs in him he lived til the hospital. (Yes Agent Miralis made his shots count but referring to the initial engagement by I believe it was Agent Dove) Sure the one round that the FBI blamed on the Silvertip went through the arm into the chest and lacked a couple inches but was deemed fatal just not right then. A lot of other Silvertip 9mm agencies had great success.
So if you can’t make those hits within the first few rounds your gonna run out of time before you run out of rounds!
KillerFord1977
SAINT
He shot him all in chest and stomach
If it’s the same one I saw the impacts looked outer 8 ring which isn’t an instant disabling hit but those outer 8 ring hits do give them full value points on a qual!
That said we could all find a case to cherry pick our side from.
KillerFord1977
SAINT
That was the one
He made chest shots
Bassbob
Emissary
I know plenty of people who carry 17 round 9MMs. I often do. I’m not sure if they’re “wonder 9s” ?
Sometimes I carry a 12 round 9. Sometimes I carry a 13 rd. .45. Almost always an extra mag. Mags can fail. Mags can fall.
I’m not sure I feel naked without it though.
One thing I never carry. A revolver.
I started on a S&W model 15 in the USAF and carried a 686 with my first Municipal LE job then a 8 shot Sig 220 45 (as in 7+1 before Sig made 8 round mags standard with 220’s) then later a mixed bag of 9mm from 13-15 round on agency stuff. I never really felt under prepared with a wheelgun and like them and still carry one (primarily a S&W 64 DAO) off duty quite frequently.
I went back to work (retiring at 52 I felt guilty) and carry a HK 45 10+1 as we use to be mandated 45 before this year and never felt the need to change.
That’s just me.. I so run a Sig 226 9mm and a Glock 45 9mm as I am a instructor and when I am helping at the academy I see more Glocks and 9mm than HK’s so I get it at the same time!
Snake45
Professional
A "Wonder 9" is a DA/SA double-stack 9mm, so-called because they combined the double-stack magazine of the Browning P35 with the DA lockwork of the Walther P.38/Smith 39. These were a big deal back before striker-fired guns took over. Archetypical Wonder 9s include the Smith 59, Beretta 92, SIG 226, and CZ75.
Snake45
Professional
We need to start a club. So far that's you, me, and Hayes Greener here that I know of, and I'm probably forgetting somebody. To this day, the SA trigger pull of an old-school Smith K or N revolver is my definition of "perfect trigger," especially the .400" Smith Wide Target Trigger. The WTT is not that great for DA work though. The standard .256" trigger is better for DA, and even better is the .312" smooth-faced Combat Trigger.
HayesGreener
Hellcat
And donutsYeah, older cops sure seem to like their revolvers.
HayesGreener
Hellcat
The Newhall Incident occurred April 6, 1970. We learned much from that tragedy, but a lot of agencies weren't listening or frozen by inertia. It was a point where LE started paying closer attention to CQB dynamics, and combat reloads. It started the ball rolling toward revolver speedloaders becoming standard on LE duty belts and increased interest in duty semi-autos. But often neglected was training in reloading technique under stress.
The rule of 3's usually applies. As ECS said above, chances are you will never run your gun dry in a fight, but s#$% can happen. I have always taught, you will probably never have to reload, but if you do, you will need to do so very badly, and in a hurry. Which is why I ran many reload and clearance drills until it became an automatic process.
Combat reloading is like lovemaking. You are probably in a hurry, there is a good chance you will have to do it in the dark, you don't want to fumble, and you need to know what goes where by feel.
The rule of 3's usually applies. As ECS said above, chances are you will never run your gun dry in a fight, but s#$% can happen. I have always taught, you will probably never have to reload, but if you do, you will need to do so very badly, and in a hurry. Which is why I ran many reload and clearance drills until it became an automatic process.
Combat reloading is like lovemaking. You are probably in a hurry, there is a good chance you will have to do it in the dark, you don't want to fumble, and you need to know what goes where by feel.
I actually never run any of my Wheelguns single action it’s DA only we never even used Single action at any departments or in my time with the USAF pre M9
HayesGreener
Hellcat
I think we might have done some single action shooting with the M15 from the barricade or prone at the 50 yard line in the 70's.
HayesGreener
Hellcat
I have several of those old school S&W revolvers, and you are right, they are smooth as silk. Testament to the skill of the smiths in the factory back in the day.