Snake45
Professional
Dig it! Another excellent carry wheelgun. Wouldn't it be great if Smith would make these with a lightweight frame? AFAIK they never made any 3" Model 12s, and I'm not sure the 12s were rated for +P or +P+.
Can Browning's Masterpiece Be Surpassed?
- Thread starter ACIinventor
- Start date
Dig it! Another excellent carry wheelgun. Wouldn't it be great if Smith would make these with a lightweight frame? AFAIK they never made any 3" Model 12s, and I'm not sure the 12s were rated for +P or +P+.
fordag
Elite
I personally prefer the weight of a steel frame gun. I'd be happy if S&W would go back to making them like this again. Forged steel frames, high polish blue. No stupid lock.
Technically no gun could/should be rated for +P+ since there is no SAAMI standard for it. SAAMI only recognizes +P.
TEXASforLIFE
SAINT
I'd say the problem wouldn't be with MI is how the government doesn't use it! Maybe?
fordag
Elite
I did some time in a MI unit in the military and that unit was a complete and utter charlie foxtrot.
At Battalion, Brigade, Division level it's not the government but the military making use of their military intelligence units.
jumpinjoe
Hellcat
Always thought of that term as the ultimate oxymoron !!!! Well, maybe the second to ultimate when considering 'Happily married' !!!“Military Intelligence” is the age old joke
Annihilator
Hellion
All S&W frames on revolvers are forged, I hate the MIM internals, they need to go back to either forged or machined internals again. They do make some models now without the lock, just a few models, I think mostly J-frames.
TEXASforLIFE
SAINT
The blame at military intelligence is MI (pronounced me) 
HansGruber
SAINT
I've got a 3" 65-3...it's just plain perfect.
Also have a 3" Python Elite barrel that I'm tempted to have put on my 4" stainless Python, just because I can.
Also have a 3" Python Elite barrel that I'm tempted to have put on my 4" stainless Python, just because I can.
Recusant
Hellcat
I believe S & W also made a 2" or 2 1/2" Model 65. One is on my shopping list.
ACIinventor
Elite
“Military Intelligence” is the age old joke
It has not escaped my mind that a stainless steel slide version of my new operating system may be an option. However, polymer frames are here to stay in regard to EDC.
ACIinventor
Elite
Maybe you have some knowledge with this: I haven't researched yet so I assume that the majority of 10mm ammunition is loaded with powder for use in long barrelled handguns. Short barrelled 9mm handguns have driven ammunition manufacturers to produce 9mm defense loads with faster burning powder for use in those short barrels. With the 10mm cartridge currently used mostly for hunting and firearm manufacturers making long barrel models, my new handgun could persuade ammo manufacturers to develope more 10mm loads for short barrels. I'm looking at a barrel length around 4 inches, which is considered compact. This becomes a consideration because of my intent to expand the 10mm cartridge into the EDC market. Those faster burning powders would improve the ballistic performance of the 10mm from short barrels. I hope the govt will allow, my target market includes civilians.
ACIinventor
Elite
"Diminutive 10mm" - another oxymoron that could describe my new handgun. You've got to have some fun with this stuff!
Snake45
Professional
Sounds like maybe your first order of bidness should be to build up a 4" 10mm on an existing platform (Commander-length 1911?) and work up loads of this sort on your own. If these turn out to be feasible, then drive on and develop a suitable sized gun to launch them.
Keep in mind that even if you come up with a new system that substantially reduces recoil, the hideous muzzle blast of such a thing is still going to be a factor. TANSTAAFL!
BTW, I should add that I really like your idea of using the 10mm in a compact, easy-to-shoot shoulder arm. This is in the neighborhood of what Jeff Cooper had in mind with his "Thumper" concept. (In essense, a bigger-bore M1 carbine.)
HansGruber
SAINT
It exists.Sounds like maybe your first order of bidness should be to build up a 4" 10mm on an existing platform (Commander-length 1911?) and work up loads of this sort on your own. If these turn out to be feasible, then drive on and develop a suitable sized gun to launch them.
Keep in mind that even if you come up with a new system that substantially reduces recoil, the hideous muzzle blast of such a thing is still going to be a factor. TANSTAAFL!
BTW, I should add that I really like your idea of using the 10mm in a compact, easy-to-shoot shoulder arm. This is in the neighborhood of what Jeff Cooper had in mind with his "Thumper" concept. (In essense, a bigger-bore M1 carbine.)
It’s known as the Glock 29.
I never had problems with near-nuclear handloads (135gr Nosler being pushed north of 1600fps out of the 3.9” barrel, with slight overpressure signs) when I had one, and my wrists could take the beating.
Snake45
Professional
Well, there ya go. I'm not a Glock fan so am not familiar with all their hundreds of soulless, lookalike variations.
So it sounds like an EDC-sized 10mm already exists, for those who want one.
Me, I'm quite happy with .45ACP ballistics. I'm also good with .38+P, and the better 9mm loads, of which there are many these days.
Recusant
Hellcat
Here is a S & W Model 457 in .45ACP. It's steel-framed utilizes a double-action/single action trigger mechanism. It's out of production and I would think in day's market it would be a good candidate for resurrection after an upgrade. Unless you determine a suitable load for a 200 grain + hard cast bullet the difference in foot pounds between the 10mm and .45 is not that great in terms of commercial ammo. If I was going to shoot hotter loads in my Glock 20 then I'd first need to get heavy duty springs. As Tom McHale points out in this article "it would indeed be a boring world, if we were all limited to the one “best” choice". I guess that's why golfers carry so many different clubs.
www.ammoland.com
10mm Ammunition: 7 Things You Need to Know
How utterly miserable life would be if we only had one type of pickup truck, lawn tractor, 80s band, or Chia Pet character? 10mm ammunition another reason to support diversity.
www.ammoland.com
HansGruber
SAINT
The HK45C is a pretty good modern version of this. Slightly thicker in the grip, but HK's recoil system makes it super controllable.Here is a S & W Model 457 in .45ACP. It's steel-framed utilizes a double-action/single action trigger mechanism. It's out of production and I would think in day's market it would be a good candidate for resurrection after an upgrade. Unless you determine a suitable load for a 200 grain + hard cast bullet the difference in foot pounds between the 10mm and .45 is not that great in terms of commercial ammo. If I was going to shoot hotter loads in my Glock 20 then I'd first need to get heavy duty springs. As Tom McHale points out in this article "it would indeed be a boring world, if we were all limited to the one “best” choice". I guess that's why golfers carry so many different clubs.
10mm Ammunition: 7 Things You Need to Know
How utterly miserable life would be if we only had one type of pickup truck, lawn tractor, 80s band, or Chia Pet character? 10mm ammunition another reason to support diversity.
View attachment 20756
ACIinventor
Elite
Yes, muzzle blast is a factor. Thanks for the Jeff Cooper info!Sounds like maybe your first order of bidness should be to build up a 4" 10mm on an existing platform (Commander-length 1911?) and work up loads of this sort on your own. If these turn out to be feasible, then drive on and develop a suitable sized gun to launch them.
Keep in mind that even if you come up with a new system that substantially reduces recoil, the hideous muzzle blast of such a thing is still going to be a factor. TANSTAAFL!
BTW, I should add that I really like your idea of using the 10mm in a compact, easy-to-shoot shoulder arm. This is in the neighborhood of what Jeff Cooper had in mind with his "Thumper" concept. (In essense, a bigger-bore M1 carbine.)
ACIinventor
Elite
Yeah, the Glock 29 is around. But it has an even bigger "brick" slide compared to it's 9mm siblings. Once again, Glock could only use weight to tame the 10mm's recoil in Browning's recoil operated system. And Glock didn't really tame it. I'm glad your wrists could take the beating. An operating system that doesn't rely upon additional weight to manage recoil is where the industry must go. It opens the doors to even lighter handguns and higher pressure chamberings.