testtest

SIG M18 mishaps investigated in death of Airman 7/20/25

E

ECS686

Professional
Ok a Security Forces Airman died Sunday at FE Warren Wyoming AFB. The incident is being investigated from an uncommanded discharge of the Sig M18 below is screen shots from the USAF Memo where Global Strike Command has suspended anyone being issued an M18 pistol

On this thread let’s keep the banter off as a family had lost a loved one.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_0145.jpeg
    IMG_0145.jpeg
    148.5 KB · Views: 284
  • IMG_0146.jpeg
    IMG_0146.jpeg
    106.7 KB · Views: 254
  • IMG_0147.jpeg
    IMG_0147.jpeg
    164.6 KB · Views: 198
  • IMG_0148.jpeg
    IMG_0148.jpeg
    133 KB · Views: 258
Last edited:
ECS686 said:
Ok a Security Forces Airman died Sunday at FE Warren Wyoming AFB. The incident is being investigated from an uncommanded discharge of the Sig M18 below is screen shots from the USAF Memo where Global Strike Command has suspended anyone being issued an M18 pistol

On this thread let’s keep the banter off as a family had lost a loved one.
Click to expand...
What is the source of the memorandum you posted?
 
Shibadog said:
That’s terrible. Something needs to be done to permanently resolve this stuff. Say what you will this stuff didn’t happen for all those years the 1911A1 was in service with the troops.
Click to expand...

I retired from the Air Guard in 2007 but spent about 7 years active AF as Security Forces 2 years of that was missile field at Malmstrom Montana. Here is what Sig will say. The doctrine for the AF is to carry the M18 with a round chambered and the weapon on fire. The reason is way back whem we carried Model 15 revolvers all chambers loaded and spares in a dump pouch or speedloaders

Whem we went to the M9 we loaded a round in the chamber hammer down on fire first round was like our revolvers. They kept that with the M18 which is safe it’s no different than an Sig with no thumb safety.

Also if not the AF we went to JHP in 9mm for stateside use around 1999 back them it was Federal 135 hi Shok JHP however at some point it was switched to a 147 either HST or G2 Gold Dot I am not 100% sure.

I did speak with a friend from the Air Guard and they are now directed to carry empty chambers u til they can figure out a fix.
 
ECS686 said:
I retired from the Air Guard in 2007 but spent about 7 years active AF as Security Forces 2 years of that was missile field at Malmstrom Montana. Here is what Sig will say. The doctrine for the AF is to carry the M18 with a round chambered and the weapon on fire. The reason is way back whem we carried Model 15 revolvers all chambers loaded and spares in a dump pouch or speedloaders

Whem we went to the M9 we loaded a round in the chamber hammer down on fire first round was like our revolvers. They kept that with the M18 which is safe it’s no different than an Sig with no thumb safety.

Also if not the AF we went to JHP in 9mm for stateside use around 1999 back them it was Federal 135 hi Shok JHP however at some point it was switched to a 147 either HST or G2 Gold Dot I am not 100% sure.

I did speak with a friend from the Air Guard and they are now directed to carry empty chambers u til they can figure out a fix.
Click to expand...

Wrong, but I’m going to bed and not in any mood to hash over why the Beretta M9 was carried with a round in the chamber, de cocked (it’s not a safety) on fire.

If you had a law enforcement only mission JHP was authorized local purchase if commander authorized but if you had any deployment taskings or ABD you had to use ball ammo

I worked with a guy who partook in the trials and was involved with the first M9’s SAC received but what do I know
 
TJ Carr said:
Wrong, but I’m going to bed and not in any mood to hash over why the Beretta M9 was carried with a round in the chamber, de cocked (it’s not a safety) on fire.

If you had a law enforcement only mission JHP was authorized local purchase if commander authorized but if you had any deployment taskings or ABD you had to use ball ammo

I worked with a guy who partook in the trials and was involved with the first M9’s SAC received but what do I know
Click to expand...
What was wrong? I was there when we went through the transition. . Stateside bases have issued some sort of JHP since 1999. While sometimes CATM had NATO ball ammo in and around the range General issue for on duty Security Forces CONUS is JHP.
 
ECS686 said:
What was wrong? I was there when we went through the transition. . Stateside bases have issued some sort of JHP since 1999. While sometimes CATM had NATO ball ammo in and around the range General issue for on duty Security Forces CONUS is JHP.
Click to expand...

Sure thing dude, whatever you say
 
ECS686 said:
What was wrong? I was there when we went through the transition. . Stateside bases have issued some sort of JHP since 1999. While sometimes CATM had NATO ball ammo in and around the range General issue for on duty Security Forces CONUS is JHP.
Click to expand...
Yes, Last time I read up on things the M1153 147 grain JHP was in use with the M18 pistol. In situations to reduce over penetration it was not specified what situations that would be . There is also a ball round that can be used alternatively for, one presumes, situations where over penetration was not an issue, whenever thst might be.

Not sure which is used more often in more situations.
 
Last edited:
Shibadog said:
That’s terrible. Something needs to be done to permanently resolve this stuff. Say what you will this stuff didn’t happen for all those years the 1911A1 was in service with the troops.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it did. There were plenty of “UD”s with 1911’s, mainly due to incorrect handling, which I suspect is the issue with most cases with the M17/18.

You just didn’t have the coverage of it like we do now.
 
HansGruber said:
Yeah, it did. There were plenty of “UD”s with 1911’s, mainly due to incorrect handling, which I suspect is the issue with most cases with the M17/18.

You just didn’t have the coverage of it like we do now.
Click to expand...

No, the Sig 320/M18 has a very long documented history of going bang without any human intervention

Lots of lawsuits against Sig and the FBI investigated and found a flaw in the guns design

ICE has pulled them all from service and is issuing the G19
 
Sld1959 said:
Yes, Last time I read up on things the M1153 147 grain JHP was in use with the M18 pistol. In situations to reduce over penetration it was not specified what situations that would be . There is also a ball round that can be used alternatively for, one presumes, situations where over penetration was not an issue, whenever thst might be.

Not sure which is used more often in more situations.
Click to expand...
What I saw after the authorization in 1999 the majority of stateside bases (my home base and I did a TDY at Ellsworth) was JHP I also did a CATM stint at Malmstrom in 2010 and base side they ran JHP CATM we had a few mags with JHP for when we escorted weapons however we also used ball ammo if someone working the range had to make a trip base side they didn’t throw JHP mags in. You either carried all JHP or all Ball
 
HansGruber said:
Yeah, it did. There were plenty of “UD”s with 1911’s, mainly due to incorrect handling, which I suspect is the issue with most cases with the M17/18.

You just didn’t have the coverage of it like we do now.
Click to expand...
While at first I would 100% agree what we are seeing is there is nowhere near the UD/AD with Glocks and M&Ps compared ri Sig’s. While there are an occasional dipwad fiddle farting and getting a loud noise there would be an equal across the board amount if not slightly hight as there are more Glocks.

As far as Glock keg nit compatible as that cleared up whem we learned to not start the trigger pull like DA revolvers allowed us to.
Mits the gun and somewhat maybe the holster but more the gun as it has been documented with Safariland and Alien gear

The only was for Sig to save themselves is a total rebrand if a new platform way to much contraversay on this to just deny it away at this point.
 
SimonRL said:
Once again, in a Safariland holster. That combo definitely seems to be an issue.

Do USAF carry with weapon lights?
Click to expand...
Some do however I am not sure if across the board. So in this case I don’t know they do however carry their M18’s on fire so I am sure Sig will try and spin that!
 
SimonRL said:
Once again, in a Safariland holster. That combo definitely seems to be an issue.

Do USAF carry with weapon lights?
Click to expand...
Also as far as holster

As far as Safariland if it was 109% a holster design flaw it would be a common denominator in Glocks and others going off and it’s just Sig’s so I’m sure there are others like Alien Gear was documented in Michigan State Police issues

And there are more Safariland Homsters used than the others like Alien Gear US Duty Gear and such
 
ECS686 said:
Also as far as holster

As far as Safariland if it was 109% a holster design flaw it would be a common denominator in Glocks and others going off and it’s just Sig’s so I’m sure there are others like Alien Gear was documented in Michigan State Police issues

And there are more Safariland Homsters used than the others like Alien Gear US Duty Gear and such
Click to expand...
A lot of the issues with LEO have been Safariland holsters that take a weapon light. It is possible for foreign objects to get into the holster while the gun is in it. Sig has recommended not using that particular holster.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top