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9 mm Carry Guns Yesterday and Today

The Browning Hi-Power was a twelve round 9 mm (always download one for maximum reliability) when I carried a 9 in those olden days when I felt I needed more rounds than a .45 1911. (looking at you St. Louis) Now the Hellcat or Sig P365 XL offers a 13 round 9mm with Fun Size dimensions. Progress!

Thick.jpg
 
Frankly I miss the days when the Hi Power was THE “hi cap” pistol. Somehow, in some way, we all got by without high capacity pistols. I felt comfortably armed with a PPK in .380 and had no concerns about running into bangers with Glocks and switches. A 1911 was pretty much top dog for SD ‘(‘course frankly it still is)
 
When the topic of older 9mm guns gets brought up I can’t not think of this classic combo that Illinois State Police used to great success.

While the micro 9’s and HST gets all the press I would be just fine with this combo
A S&W Model 39-3 and Federal 9mm 115 9BPLE JHP at 1,300 FPS
 

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Frankly I miss the days when the Hi Power was THE “hi cap” pistol. Somehow, in some way, we all got by without high capacity pistols. I felt comfortably armed with a PPK in .380 and had no concerns about running into bangers with Glocks and switches. A 1911 was pretty much top dog for SD ‘(‘course frankly it still is)
I am all for anyone being able to get 17-30 to whatever but folks get offended whem you state what is factual information. Self defense scenerios for normal earth people at a mall don’t go past 3 to 19 rounds with most being around 4 or less.

But everyone thinks they are going to be an exception. Why I don’t feel underfunded with a 4” K frame and 12 rounds. But hi capacity is a security blanket a lot of folks buy into
 
I am all for anyone being able to get 17-30 to whatever but folks get offended whem you state what is factual information. Self defense scenerios for normal earth people at a mall don’t go past 3 to 19 rounds with most being around 4 or less.

But everyone thinks they are going to be an exception. Why I don’t feel underfunded with a 4” K frame and 12 rounds. But hi capacity is a security blanket a lot of folks buy into
I fear many use “capacity” as a substitute for “skill”, ie Spray and Pray. As ‘ol Col Cooper said, “if you can’t stop a thug or two with seven round, you don’t need more ammo, you need to learn to shoot”. That pretty well sums it up imho. I’m not going out looking for trouble or hanging out in the hood. I carry a single stack or wheelgun 99% of the time and don’t feel underarmed. On the security team at church it’s a double stack CZ, but only because there are a lot of folks there who would depend on us if things went bad.
 
I fear many use “capacity” as a substitute for “skill”, ie Spray and Pray. As ‘ol Col Cooper said, “if you can’t stop a thug or two with seven round, you don’t need more ammo, you need to learn to shoot”. That pretty well sums it up imho. I’m not going out looking for trouble or hanging out in the hood. I carry a single stack or wheelgun 99% of the time and don’t feel underarmed. On the security team at church it’s a double stack CZ, but only because there are a lot of folks there who would depend on us if things went bad.
Not to get off topic, I have been a nerd in handgun fighting and have seen many fights as well as taken many many classes from national level folks and have AI’s with John Hearne l.

Being involved in the training side from revolvers through now a great example is LE. If (and you can find multiple examples of this) if a shooting takes less than 7 rounds it’s successful for the Oklice. If it goes past 7 it becomes a magdump and everything except the perps elbow or ankle is hit. That whole “shoot til the threat goes away” mindset that has carried over.

It’s sort of the same mindset in the civilian side with a LOT driving the comped handgun popularity because they shoot “flatter” for those jailbait split times of .16 that is great for a USPSA stage uiu know each target gets with a 5 minute walkthrough but that serious physical assault not so much ak that .50 is more what happens at best.

But folks want what they want and all the guntubers that haven’t been in use of force incidents have told them so!
 
Personally, I don’t mind carrying fewer rounds, but if it’s going to be less than 10, it will be a .45 1911 or a J-Frame sized revolver (and both mine hold six - .32 or .38S/.357).

I think the capacity arguments arise from the threats of today that very well may have more than just one assailant. Plenty of video of carjackers jumping potential victims in their driveways with 2 or more assailants.

I live in a small enough town in Texas I feel quite comfortable with less than 10 rounds (though I sometimes carry more just because I like the gun 😃). If I lived in around Houston you can bet I’d have a very different mindset about capacity.
 
Hope I am never in the "survival" situation, how many rounds? Every one it takes and then one or two more to remove vital signs of the attacker. If attacker walks out of hospital you can count on a "pay back" visit in your future.
 
It bothers me to no end to read about encounters where good guys fire 20, 30 or more rounds and get one or two “hits”. Just “where” did all those other rounds actually “Go”??? The shooter is responsible for every round fired. You send a dozen or two loose in any urban environment there’s a heck of a good chance you’re punching holes in something (or someone😳). I read an account a few years ago about cops in NYC shooting 52 rounds at a thug (and TWO) hits😳. I’m an old fart but at what point does that become negligence? I firmly believe EVERY LEO needs to know how to actually shoot (as does anyone/everyone who actually carry’s a firearm.
 
I firmly believe EVERY LEO needs to know how to actually shoot (as does anyone/everyone who actually carry’s a firearm.
A few years ago, a co-worker had a police shooting right Infront of his house. The bad guy got away, by my co-workers truck caught hell. Shibadog, I agree but, who gets to decide if someone can "actually shoot", what's the standard, who makes up the standard,.... As for LEO's remember training dollars are finite. If we want more range time, then it is pay more taxes, or cut something else.
 
It bothers me to no end to read about encounters where good guys fire 20, 30 or more rounds and get one or two “hits”. Just “where” did all those other rounds actually “Go”??? The shooter is responsible for every round fired. You send a dozen or two loose in any urban environment there’s a heck of a good chance you’re punching holes in something (or someone😳). I read an account a few years ago about cops in NYC shooting 52 rounds at a thug (and TWO) hits😳. I’m an old fart but at what point does that become negligence? I firmly believe EVERY LEO needs to know how to actually shoot (as does anyone/everyone who actually carry’s a firearm.
The punk did shoot first, but still!!!
 
The punk did shoot first, but still!!!
Well here is an opposite story. LAPD Officer zrininMcbride shot a man with a knife 6 times all solid hits agency cleared her civilian oversights said the first 4 shots were justified the last 2 were bit.

Officer McBride is a Geand Master USPSA shootwr and has several videos burning down matches.
Which probably played a part in the civilian review board.

The case which happened in 2020 was just regicide this year as they have went back and forth iver QI and other only in California issues seem to happen


 
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