Hello all, here is today's article posted on TheArmoryLife.com. It is titled “Is Defensive Firearms Training Defensible?” and can be found at https://www.thearmorylife.com/firearms-training-in-court/.
Is Defensive Firearms Training Defensible?
- Thread starter Mike H.
- Start date
Decisively declared!downright definitely demonstratable defensive defensible.
SimonRL
Ronin
The video that @KillerFord1977 has of me gunning down a couple of civilian targets so I could get to the bad guy might not help my case. The instructor said I shot a Mom and her daughter out shopping. I told him I was pretty sure they were MS13.
TXIronblood
Alpha
Something about this reminds me of that gun range scene in the first Men in Black movie. Little Tiffany was suspicious
Ayoob hits the mark, as usual. Training has application beyond trial. When you claim self defense, the investigating officer should be asking you what you know about self defense. With the assistance of your attorney or legal team (you shouldn't be talking to the police without and attorney), your training records can be produced and document the training you've actually had. Now, training is not essential to a winning claim of self defense, but it gets you a lot further down field if you can show you received quality training and you followed that training. My opinion is based upon 10 years as a police officer, 2 years as a criminal defense attorney, 3 years representing a larger Alaska police department, and 20+ years as a prosecutor. As a prosecutor I certainly wanted to know what training a person had and whether they followed the training. You can never go wrong with quality training.
FNFAN
Master Class
What a fun career! 10 years of road time and 20+ prosecuting -you're a veritable unicorn! I worked for a D.A's office with about 130 attorneys (at the time) and did the backgrounds on many new hires. Some of them came in with all the life experience of Little Bo Peep!
KillerFord1977
Emissary
“APPLIED” knowledge is power.
You can have a ton of knowledge, but you have to know how to utilize it.
KillerFord1977
Emissary
Better than North Korea, Russia and China, wont you say ?
BassCliff
Hellcat
Hello!
And welcome to the forum.
I hope you visit often to share your experience and expertise.
I would like it if my self defense training was tax deductible.
Thank you for your indulgence,
BassCliff
And welcome to the forum.
I hope you visit often to share your experience and expertise.
I would like it if my self defense training was tax deductible.
Thank you for your indulgence,
BassCliff
Oldmountaiman
Custom
So true as I saw several of those during my last years as a training officer for security teams. They had plenty of paper but very little hands on.“APPLIED” knowledge is power.
You can have a ton of knowledge, but you have to know how to utilize it.
no life
Master Class
A founding member with a few posts... i heard AK people are a bit out there...
BassCliff
Hellcat
Hi,
My apologies to @golsonAK. I did not notice your "Founding Member" status, only that you had just a couple of posts. I knew I hadn't seen you around much even though you've been a member here more than a year longer than I. Don't be a stranger!
Thank you for your indulgence,
BassCliff
My apologies to @golsonAK. I did not notice your "Founding Member" status, only that you had just a couple of posts. I knew I hadn't seen you around much even though you've been a member here more than a year longer than I. Don't be a stranger!
Thank you for your indulgence,
BassCliff
One thing, good training is for the most part WAY to expensive for most people. Also hard for someone like me( old, out of shape and disabled (I can only walk a little with a cane, further with a "rolator" and an oxygen generator) to find ANY one to train me at a price I can afford. Seems all the trainers and there facility's are set up for those that can walk and move fast. Then try and afford them on approx. $24,000 a year( social security and a small retirement) And I hope you can see why I don't have much training. Have had a NRA basic pistol course and I do a LOT of self training by doing a lot of reading (try to make it the "good" stuff) but that's it. Here in Indiana I just had to pass a back ground test to get my permit, now don't even need that here (Indiana is now "constitutional" carry) but I still have my lifetime permit. I really wish someone would offer a good low cost (or free) course designed for us senior citizens and offer it in a lot of places. Many of us senior's can't afford much travel either. Its even hard for me to afford travel what with the cost of gas and hotel rooms. And not to mention the cost of ammo, but I do have a good stock of that that I built up back when I was working. Would be nice if someone would start a traveling course for seniors and disabled that was affordable. Where I live is southern Indiana just a crossed the river from Louisville KY. I would take a course if it was affordable and no more than about an hour drive from my home.
BassCliff
Hellcat
Hi,
Welcome to the forum. Thanks for joining us.
Yes, some training courses are very expensive. I would start by checking around at all your local ranges. I've taken many training session classes that were $40-$50. I'm sure the instructor could take into consideration your physical needs. Even if you're not able to do a lot of scoot-n-shoot or run-n-gun, you can still learn about situational awareness, be prepared, handle malfunctions, and put hits on target quickly.
There are many drills you can practice on your own, Failure to Stop, El Presidente, Mozambique, Bill Drill, 10-10-10 drill, Dot Torture, etc. Don't forget dry fire practice. A laser cartridge and phone app is a good training aid.
(Forgive me if I state the obvious.)
I wish you all the best. Let us know how we can help.
Thank you for your indulgence,
BassCliff
Welcome to the forum. Thanks for joining us.
Yes, some training courses are very expensive. I would start by checking around at all your local ranges. I've taken many training session classes that were $40-$50. I'm sure the instructor could take into consideration your physical needs. Even if you're not able to do a lot of scoot-n-shoot or run-n-gun, you can still learn about situational awareness, be prepared, handle malfunctions, and put hits on target quickly.
There are many drills you can practice on your own, Failure to Stop, El Presidente, Mozambique, Bill Drill, 10-10-10 drill, Dot Torture, etc. Don't forget dry fire practice. A laser cartridge and phone app is a good training aid.
(Forgive me if I state the obvious.)
I wish you all the best. Let us know how we can help.
Thank you for your indulgence,
BassCliff
Most of the courses I've seen around here start around $300 to $400 not including ammo or travel. I do get some static range time, including some of the drills you mention. Though I do not know of ANY range near me that allows drawing from holster so I start from low ready. And I do a lot of dry fire practice. At least the cost of ammo has gone down a little, most of it I own I paid about 1/2 the going rate there getting now. Stored in metal ammo cans with moisture absorber's not directly touching the ammo. Oh and one more thing, not sure my old bones will let me shoot more than about 40 or 50 rounds a day anymore. But if I could find a good $50 course in my area I'd go.
Somehow, I missed this thread back when Mike first linked it. Thank you Mike. And thank you also, RJW, for resurrecting it.
Not that I have a lot to offer.
. My thinking is that the biggest value we get from “training,” is the ability (or maybe at least improved ability!) to remember critical elements of self defense law while involved in a real life self defense event. Not necessarily the running and gunning that people do in competition, but instead the benefit that training offers in making life and death decisions and using our gun under extreme stress. That could be done using some type of laser practice like Mantix ( this might be the wrong spelling, but most here probably know what I am talking about) and done in a classroom or even home setting. Combine that with live fire practice to maintain a modicum of accuracy and it might be a winner? The upfront cost for equipment might be significant, but being able to reuse it a lot with minimal expense would offset that. It also might be beneficial in allowing us old fogeys to remember things better and actually be able to physically participate in continued training. It may already be out there, but me here living my sheltered life just not being aware. My $0.02 worth on this topic.
Not that I have a lot to offer.
. My thinking is that the biggest value we get from “training,” is the ability (or maybe at least improved ability!) to remember critical elements of self defense law while involved in a real life self defense event. Not necessarily the running and gunning that people do in competition, but instead the benefit that training offers in making life and death decisions and using our gun under extreme stress. That could be done using some type of laser practice like Mantix ( this might be the wrong spelling, but most here probably know what I am talking about) and done in a classroom or even home setting. Combine that with live fire practice to maintain a modicum of accuracy and it might be a winner? The upfront cost for equipment might be significant, but being able to reuse it a lot with minimal expense would offset that. It also might be beneficial in allowing us old fogeys to remember things better and actually be able to physically participate in continued training. It may already be out there, but me here living my sheltered life just not being aware. My $0.02 worth on this topic.