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165 Grain 40 S&W Is It Dead?

WellArmed said:
What does a 10mm do that 40s&w can't do when it comes to defensive against humans? If it comes to hunting with hardcast, where greater penetration is required, then I agree that 10mm is better than 40s&w in that respect. When it comes to conceal carry, size, weight, price of ammo, and defense against two legged predators, I don't see how 10mm is better other than it's the flavor of the month that's on the bandwagon that everyone suddenly wants to jump on. I'm genuinely curious because I don't think 10mm defensive ammo does anything at all better or is better at quick incapacitation of a human being in anyway, shape, or form than a 40s&w.

This doesn't apply to you @USMC6094, but I also don't understand how many of the same people who bash 40s&w as being too snappy, hard to make follow up shots, and too expensive compared to 9mm will rave about and have now problem with the more expensive and snappier 10mm cartridge.
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I do tend to gravitate between .40 and 10 more than I do 9. I work in rural Illinois and get off when the trash pandas are checking out the dumpsters or out in the country side. I honestly think 9 is the current “cool” thing because of price and availability (mostly because the government uses it too).

Besides that we all know calibers have their ups and downs. I honestly think there will be a time when .40 will be looked at again and 10MM will still have its place.
 
Jsimon78 said:
I honestly think 9 is the current “cool” thing because of price and availability (mostly because the government uses it too).
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No, it's the current "cool" thing because of effectiveness, capacity and lower felt recoil. It doesn't hurt that it's also cheap because it's mass-produced.
 
mreed911 said:
No, it's the current "cool" thing because of effectiveness, capacity and lower felt recoil. It doesn't hurt that it's also cheap because it's mass-produced.
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It’s all how we train. Yes I’m still considered a new shooter (been doing it for 3 years ish now). Yes .40 and 10MM are snappy to begin with but if we go practice with what we have (which I do with my G23.5 and M&P M2.0 10MM) then things shouldn’t be a problem. Also my thing is if we get what we just went through on ammo shortage’s then what will people do or what about another Miami Shoot out (that brought out the 10MM and then the .40).
 
Jsimon78 said:
Yes .40 and 10MM are snappy to begin with but if we go practice with what we have (which I do with my G23.5 and M&P M2.0 10MM) then things shouldn’t be a problem.
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Nobody said it was a problem. I said that 9mm had less felt recoil. That's mathematically demonstrable... and it's why shooters in competitive sports look to use the lowest recoiling round allowed in their sport.
 
mreed911 said:
Nobody said it was a problem. I said that 9mm had less felt recoil. That's mathematically demonstrable... and it's why shooters in competitive sports look to use the lowest recoiling round allowed in their sport.
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I haven’t really done competitive shooting at all but have checked into it. The only real research I did do was on a GSSF (which is like researching toilet paper in my book) and there’s different classifications.

Everyone is different (I know I am) and shoot what we feel comfortable with. Hopefully in the near future I get more experience on competitive shooting (need to find a place to do it besides GSSF).
 
mreed911 said:
Glock has their own matches.

SIG has their own matches.

S&W just started S&W Academy for training.

Springfield Armory needs to step up. :)
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I agree Springfield should do something. I think I asked before and got basically a “no”. As much as I hate to say it, I wish I was closer to S&W than Springfield Armory. If SA started something then I wouldn’t mind the hour drive.
 
BarryinIN said:
That is a pretty interesting table.

-I’d like to see the actual numbers because I’m guessing there is a big drop after the top ten.

-I never thought I’d see .380 as high as third.

-I seldom see anyone shooting 5.7x28, but there it is at #8, ahead of .40.

-Who in the hell is buying all the 7.62x25???
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I agree with the 5.7 x 28. I know the gun is out there but I can find something in .40 a lot better.


I didn’t know about the 7.62 x 25 till now. I knew .357SIG, .454 Casull, and .41 rem mag.
 
AmmoSeek is a search engine. You search, click a link to a product you're interested in, and it directs you off-site to a vendor's website. There's absolutely no way Ammoseek could know who's actually buying what. All they know is what searches are done and what off-site links for particular ammo are clicked. I highly doubt that the hundreds of vendors are sending their sales data to AmmoSeek.

BarryinIN said:
That is a pretty interesting table.

-I’d like to see the actual numbers because I’m guessing there is a big drop after the top ten.

-I never thought I’d see .380 as high as third.

-I seldom see anyone shooting 5.7x28, but there it is at #8, ahead of .40.

-Who in the hell is buying all the 7.62x25???
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WellArmed said:
AmmoSeek is a search engine. You search, click a link to a product you're interested in, and it directs you off-site to a vendor's website. There's absolutely no way Ammoseek could know who's actually buying what. All they know is what searches are done and what off-site links for particular ammo are clicked. I highly doubt that the hundreds of vendors are sending their sales data to AmmoSeek.
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Good point. I didn’t really think about it being “Top Searches” rather than “Top Sales”.

Then again, I don’t know if that makes it less odd to me or more.
 
mreed911 said:
Grain weight doesn't determine recoil strength - powder charge does. Typically, heavier bullets have more of a "push" recoil because there's less powder, and smaller bullets have a little more of a snap because there's more powder.

Grain weight affects the recoil impulse and how it's perceived, though, with the smaller, faster bullets exiting the bore (reducing the force driving the slide back) faster, hence the "snap" vs. "push."

It's definitely worth comparing different weight rounds from the same manufacturer to see what you like in your gun.
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Only slightly oversimplified :

Recoil is essentally congruent with the Momentum ( weight x velocity ) .

So 165 @ 1100fps is essentially equivalent to 180gr @ a hair under 1000fps .

( Ok , bullet weight plus powder weight , but in .40 not huge variation in power weight , compared to Revolver ctgs .)
 
WellArmed said:
AmmoSeek is a search engine. You search, click a link to a product you're interested in, and it directs you off-site to a vendor's website. There's absolutely no way Ammoseek could know who's actually buying what. All they know is what searches are done and what off-site links for particular ammo are clicked. I highly doubt that the hundreds of vendors are sending their sales data to AmmoSeek.
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If they're tracking referrals and getting paid a commission when they buy, they can infer it.
 
mreed911 said:
If they're tracking referrals and getting paid a commission when they buy, they can infer it.
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No, vendors pay AmmoSeek a monthly fee to have their ammo listed. The amount that a vendor pays to AmmoSeek monthly is contingent on how many clicks that vendors receives. AmmoSeek knows nothing about what's purchased or not purchased.

There are other options for vendors, buy I don't see any avenue where AmmoSeek could possibly have reliable data on what people are actually buying....

Listing Fees | AmmoSeek.com

Listing Fees - Search best in-stock ammo, guns, magazines, and reloading components for the cheapest prices online 2025
ammoseek.com ammoseek.com
 
WellArmed said:
No, vendors pay AmmoSeek a monthly fee to have their ammo listed. The amount that a vendor pays to AmmoSeek monthly is contingent on how many clicks that vendors receives. AmmoSeek knows nothing about what's purchased or not purchased.

There are other options for vendors, buy I don't see any avenue where AmmoSeek could possibly have reliable data on what people are actually buying....
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1/ That's a commission - it's just a per-click commission.

2/ They'd know what listing the user was clicking on to get to the site, e.g. Remington 115gr Golden Sabre, etc.
 
mreed911 said:
1/ That's a commission - it's just a per-click commission.

2/ They'd know what listing the user was clicking on to get to the site, e.g. Remington 115gr Golden Sabre, etc.
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A click only shows interest and isn't a purchase. One person can click dozens to hundreds of, for example, .40 S&W listings. No matter how you look at it based on what we know, there's just no way AmmoSeek could have any reliable data outside of what links are being clicked.

Heck, I've seen many forum members who were debating different types of ammo and calibers they weren't even interested in cite AmmoSeek. I was just in a debate pertaining to .38/.357 vs .32H&R/.327, and went to AmmoSeek to look up shipped prices on various vendors. I clicked on several .32H&R links, and I'm not interested in the projectile. A lot of people use AmmoSeek and even GunBroker for informal and comparison purposes.
 
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