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5.56 vs. Drywall: Is Your Home Defense Gun Dangerous?

uspatriot1960 said:
The guy in the original video never revealed his barrel length, but it looked like his was in that range. I have a 7.5” Victor. I know this, I would not want to be shot with it. Bet it would do as much, if not more damage than a 9mm pistol.
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I don’t want to get shot with a .22 short out of a Beretta Minx, either.

Doesn’t mean it’s a great choice for a defense round...see the fault in the “I wouldn’t want to get shot by it” argument?

The damage is going to depend entirely upon the bullet used; a 55gr or 62gr FMJ is likely just going to icepick, not yaw and fragment in soft tissue as it is designed to. Additionally, the velocity is going to be dropping low enough that you likely won’t be getting a whole lot of temporary cavity damage, either...a good 9mm JHP out of the same length barrel would likely do a hell of a lot more damage.

When I looked at short barreled .223’s for HD, my bullet of choice was a 40gr-55gr ballistic tip; Winchester Silvertip, Nosler, or V-Max. The damage done was dramatic, and was tested on a cull sow on a friend’s farm—damage was impressive. Additionally, the bullet would come apart upon striking the first layer of Sheetrock.
 
HansGruber said:
I don’t want to get shot with a .22 short out of a Beretta Minx, either.

Doesn’t mean it’s a great choice for a defense round...see the fault in the “I wouldn’t want to get shot by it” argument?

The damage is going to depend entirely upon the bullet used; a 55gr or 62gr FMJ is likely just going to icepick, not yaw and fragment in soft tissue as it is designed to. Additionally, the velocity is going to be dropping low enough that you likely won’t be getting a whole lot of temporary cavity damage, either...a good 9mm JHP out of the same length barrel would likely do a hell of a lot more damage.

When I looked at short barreled .223’s for HD, my bullet of choice was a 40gr-55gr ballistic tip; Winchester Silvertip, Nosler, or V-Max. The damage done was dramatic, and was tested on a cull sow on a friend’s farm—damage was impressive. Additionally, the bullet would come apart upon striking the first layer of Sheetrock.
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I think everything is relative...

That being said, a .223 out of a short barrel will do a lot more damage than a .22 short. What about damage done with a hollow point 55gr .223 out of a 7.5” vs. a 9mm JHP out of a 3” barrel? Or even a 4” barrel. That’s what many people use for self defense. And I know a .380 is not optimal, but it has been proven to be effective and deadly. How would a .223 HP out of a 7.5” compare with a .380 out of a 3” barrel? Or a .38 out of a snuby?

I’m sure a .223 is not as optimal as possible. But, I’m pretty sure it’s better than some other options that people use as an every day defense weapon...

Of course a .44 magnum will do tremendous damage, but how many people carry them around as an EDC? Again, everything is relative.
 
uspatriot1960 said:
I think everything is relative...

That being said, a .223 out of a short barrel will do a lot more damage than a .22 short. What about damage done with a hollow point 55gr .223 out of a 7.5” vs. a 9mm JHP out of a 3” barrel? Or even a 4” barrel. That’s what many people use for self defense. And I know a .380 is not optimal, but it has been proven to be effective and deadly. How would a .223 HP out of a 7.5” compare with a .380 out of a 3” barrel? Or a .38 out of a snuby?

I’m sure a .223 is not as optimal as possible. But, I’m pretty sure it’s better than some other options that people use as an every day defense weapon...

Of course a .44 magnum will do tremendous damage, but how many people carry them around as an EDC? Again, everything is relative.
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And how many people are carrying 7.5” .223’s as EDC’s?

Kinda comparing apples and kumquats, aren’t you?
 
HansGruber said:
And how many people are carrying 7.5” .223’s as EDC’s?

Kinda comparing apples and kumquats, aren’t you?
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I’m trying to compare a 7.5” .223 as a home defense weapon with a firearm which many people use as a home defense weapon. Of course they are apples and kumquats. But which would be more effective? The .223 apple with a 7.5” barrel with 55gr HP or the 9mm kumquat with a 115gr JHP out of a 3” barrel? I think it’s a valid question.
 
uspatriot1960 said:
I’m trying to compare a 7.5” .223 as a home defense weapon with a firearm which many people use as a home defense weapon. Of course they are apples and kumquats. But which would be more effective? The .223 apple with a 7.5” barrel with 55gr HP or the 9mm kumquat with a 115gr JHP out of a 3” barrel? I think it’s a valid question.
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Why not compare a 7.5” .223 with a 9mm out of a 7.5” SBR/“Heavy Pistol”?

Wouldn’t that be a more honest comparison, instead of automatically favoring your choice?
 
HansGruber said:
Why not compare a 7.5” .223 with a 9mm out of a 7.5” SBR/“Heavy Pistol”?

Wouldn’t that be a more honest comparison, instead of automatically favoring your choice?
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Yes, I have a 7.5” pistol. But I’m asking for an honest comparison. Seems to me you’re not answering because maybe the answer isn’t what you want it to be. I don’t know. I respect your experience and knowledge, Hans. I wouldn’t be asking otherwise. There are always other options and multitudes of comparisons. The one I’m looking for is a short barrel AR in .223 as a home defense weapon vs. a very popular handgun configuration used for home/self defense. If I’m in my house and an intruder enters and my choice is a 7.5” AR with 55gr HP or a 9mm Hellcat with 115gr JHP, which would be the most effective choice? I’m sure I’m not the only one in the world who may be faced with that choice at some point.
 
Mike H. said:
Hello all, here is today's article posted on TheArmoryLife.com. It is titled "5.56 vs. Drywall: Is Your Home Defense Gun Dangerous?" and can be found at https://www.thearmorylife.com/5-56-vs-drywall-is-your-home-defense-gun-dangerous/.

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Thanks for your thought provoking article/video Mike and Paul,

From my experience: Along those lines, am thinking some people are confused on bullet weight and type? Can be easy to do? Target or FMJ ammo have different characteristics than hollow point or HP ammo. One, FMJ is tapered and sharp nosed. Generally flies faster than HP. Then, typical HP is usually slightly tapered to blunt nosed for auto feed.

Many people tend to think target (FMJ) ammo is less destructive because typically used for paper targets. All things considered? Look at results? Umm, no, not really? Too many people also tend to think projectile weight marked on package is charge weight. - Is just the opposite. A heavier projectile weight tends to slow down with the typical same charge or powder weight.

Then, confusing advertised boxed projectile / bullet weight with propellant or powder weight as well? For average home defense am thinking lower powder charged wad cutters or more flatnose ammo may be best depending on powder charge. - Good luck on that with or using most if not all auto feeders though? AR's come to mind?

An analogy, why would a thin needle is used be used for fabric instead of a wide one? Fabric has or offers less less resistance to thin needles than wider ones. Therefore, "threading the needle" is easier. Same with conventional ammo. Also, in a sense, the average wall is a just a "fabric" of sorts as well. Am sure there are better, more detailed thoughts on ammo, but in general those are my interpretations.
 
Bassbob said:
I'm getting ready to put together a pistol. I'd be real interested in what kind of performance you get out of a 5.56 with an 8.5-10" upper.
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Here's a great article with data that should assist with your question.

rifleshooter.com

223 Remington/ 5.56mm NATO barrel length and velocity: 26 inches to 6 inches

Have you ever wondered how much barrel length effects muzzle velocity on your rifle? Well I did, so I cut up rifles chambered in 223 Remington, 308 Winchester, 7 mm Remington Magnum and 300 Winche…
rifleshooter.com rifleshooter.com
 
uspatriot1960 said:
Yes, I have a 7.5” pistol. But I’m asking for an honest comparison. Seems to me you’re not answering because maybe the answer isn’t what you want it to be. I don’t know. I respect your experience and knowledge, Hans. I wouldn’t be asking otherwise. There are always other options and multitudes of comparisons. The one I’m looking for is a short barrel AR in .223 as a home defense weapon vs. a very popular handgun configuration used for home/self defense. If I’m in my house and an intruder enters and my choice is a 7.5” AR with 55gr HP or a 9mm Hellcat with 115gr JHP, which would be the most effective choice? I’m sure I’m not the only one in the world who may be faced with that choice at some point.
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Now I get why you are asking; yes, if your choice is between a compact carry 9mm and a 556 “heavy pistol”, the choice is obvious...not only for ballistic advantage, but also for platform advantage.

That being said, though...having worked with a 7.5” 556 AR in close quarters...they suck. You can put whatever diverter/brake/compensator you want on it, and just a couple of shots will ring your bell, even with double earpro. Even with a good suppressor (I think we were running a Gemtech that was rated for 7.5” barrels, don’t recall the model), you still needed earpro.

If you cranked one off with no hearing protection? You probably aren’t going to be very functional, auditory exclusion be damned. A buddy on a multi-county tac team compared it to a flash bang in its intensity...and a 7.5” barrel wearing a KX3 blew plaster off the ceiling in the old farmhouse where we were shooting.

Definitely something to consider.
 
Apparently many of us have differing opinions.

Certainly, rifles need to be part of a defensive strategy in rural settings. When I stilled lived in a rural setting my choice was for 7.62 as opposed to 5,56. Handguns and shotguns were also a part of the strategy.

Now in a suburb, shotguns with #4 buckshot along with handguns loaded with hollow points are primary. We have also replaced drywall with ballistic fiberglass panels in certain areas of our home. https://www.armorco.com/specs-videos

I am worried about over penetration and being found innocent of shooting the perps and being found guilty of manslaughter if an innocent bystander or sleeping neighbor were hit by an errant round.
 
HansGruber said:
Now I get why you are asking; yes, if your choice is between a compact carry 9mm and a 556 “heavy pistol”, the choice is obvious...not only for ballistic advantage, but also for platform advantage.

That being said, though...having worked with a 7.5” 556 AR in close quarters...they suck. You can put whatever diverter/brake/compensator you want on it, and just a couple of shots will ring your bell, even with double earpro. Even with a good suppressor (I think we were running a Gemtech that was rated for 7.5” barrels, don’t recall the model), you still needed earpro.

If you cranked one off with no hearing protection? You probably aren’t going to be very functional, auditory exclusion be damned. A buddy on a multi-county tac team compared it to a flash bang in its intensity...and a 7.5” barrel wearing a KX3 blew plaster off the ceiling in the old farmhouse where we were shooting.

Definitely something to consider.
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Thank you.
 
The OP-date of this thread goes back to my absence from these Forums, but I wanted to come back to this, given this very recent, tragic, event:


It's not yet clear what bullet, fired from what kind of weapon, killed this poor girl. I'm sure that more details will follow in the days to come, given LAPD's promises.

Folks who know me here know that I am not a proponent of "magic bullets" - defensive cartridges that claim to somehow eliminate the possibility of casualty from overpenertration while also maintaining excellent terminal performance. I do not believe that such a cartridge exists: i.e. I have not seen any objective testing of such a cartridge, to-date. Furthermore, I am among those who point to the fact that despite the prevalence of police shootings, the incidence of tragedies such as this remain startlingly low.

My personal outlook has always been that the defensive cartridge must provide sufficient terminal performance, and towards this, my personal criteria is to only use those cartridges vetted via the FBI protocol as detailed in the following: http://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/self_defense_ammo_FAQ/ . And stemming from this need for penetration, I then heed the words of the 4th Golden Rule, to know my target's foreground, background, and surroundings, so that I can hopefully avert just this kind of tragedy that's seen above.
 
No blast diverter, but a standard FH. 10.5". I have accidentally fired it once without my ears on and it didn't seem any louder than any other AR to me. It's definitely not so loud you need double earpro.

5TcDxK6.jpg
 
HansGruber said:
Now I get why you are asking; yes, if your choice is between a compact carry 9mm and a 556 “heavy pistol”, the choice is obvious...not only for ballistic advantage, but also for platform advantage.

That being said, though...having worked with a 7.5” 556 AR in close quarters...they suck. You can put whatever diverter/brake/compensator you want on it, and just a couple of shots will ring your bell, even with double earpro. Even with a good suppressor (I think we were running a Gemtech that was rated for 7.5” barrels, don’t recall the model), you still needed earpro.

If you cranked one off with no hearing protection? You probably aren’t going to be very functional, auditory exclusion be damned. A buddy on a multi-county tac team compared it to a flash bang in its intensity...and a 7.5” barrel wearing a KX3 blew plaster off the ceiling in the old farmhouse where we were shooting.

Definitely something to consider.
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Recently I've had some first hand experience of being exposed to a 10in barrel 5.56 being fired in an enclosed space and my hearing went to zero after one shot after my ear pro got knocked off accidentally as someone else was firing.

I went to an ENT audiologist the next day and after testing my hearing was only able to pickup sounds above the 90 decibel range which is pretty bad as far as hearing range is concerned.

I was put on high dose regimen of Prednisone steroid and also referred to hyperbaric oxygen chamber therapy for 20 treatments as a way to counter the acute acoustic trauma I was exposed to.

It took weeks for my hearing to come back and after the 4th week of treatments I was retested and finally back in a normal hearing range though I still have a mild tinnitus that may or may not go away I was told by the Dr.

There is no guarantee for reversing hearing loss and I was very lucky to have recovered the way I did and this event made me rethink what firearms I would use indoors going forward because losing my hearing sucked.

The shorter the barrel on a 5.56 the louder it will be and depending on the muzzle device it may bring more decibels to your ears causing further damage.

I've been a big proponent for .300blk subsonic suppressed for an HD weapon for years and now I'm 100% convinced this is the way to go.
 
I agree with the above; that’s why my main “repel boarders” weapon is a 8.5” barreled 9mm “heavy pistol” running 147gr subsonic. With single layer electronic earpro, it wasn’t bad at all; I suspect that no earpro would result in long term hearing damage, but wouldn’t be immediately debilitating.

On the .224/5.56 front, I ran across these today, picked up a couple boxes (at .80/rd, they really aren’t that much more expensive than they were in The Before Times).
042062B6-79B0-4B60-8139-921547D9AAC5.jpeg


If I were running a .223 of any barrel length, and I wanted to limit wall penetration…these are gonna be hard to beat. They will be devastating in squishy stuff, too…I think a 10.5” barrel would still be close to 3000fps.
 
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