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6.5 Millimeters of Magic - Outperforming Since Bismarck

Talyn

Emissary
Founding Member
It is impossible, 140 years later, to say exactly who first concluded that a bullet of 6.5mm diameter, .264 in imperial measure, was the perfect caliber for a rifle.

It is also almost impossible to explain why it took Americans so long to agree. By 1905, 6.5mm cartridges were standard at every level in Europe; not until a century later, in 2007, did a 6.5mm rifle conquer the American heart and become the rifle everyone wanted.

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Typical military 6.5s from around 1900: (1) 6.5x50 Arisaka, (2) 6.5x52 Carcano,
(3) 6.5x54 Mannlicher-Schönauer, (4) 6.5x53R Dutch, (5) 6.5x55 Swede and (6) 6.5x58 Mauser.


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A range of modern civilian 6.5s: (1) 6.5 Grendel, (2) 6.5 Creedmoor,
(3) 260 Remington, (4) 6.5x55, (5) 6.5-284, (6) 264 Winchester Magnum
and (7) 26 Nosler
.
 
Barrel life is fine except for those 6.5's like the 264 Win Mag, 26 Nosler & 6.5x284.

It's all about how hard you push things (case volume) in relation to the specific bore diameter. P.O. Ackley called it the "Over-bore" effect.


Barrel life issues also applies to other calibers that have cartridges that are "over-bore".

More from this topic in a discussion early on here.



 
6mm Lee was was a barrel smoker, and was replaced by 30-40 Krag.

6.5, 7mm, have done it ALL, and killed it ALL.

I wish I'd discovered 6.5 Swedish long before I did.

Eventually I'll get a Creedmoor .....
 
Ehh I read that article because I get that magazine.
One thing to remember, there didn't exist the plethora of modern powder technology that exists today.

My first exposure to the 6.5 caliber was the 6.5 Swedish.
I own a m96 and later carbine.
Ruger m77 which is not very accurate.
Arisaka type 38

Then I joined the modern 6.5 craze.
So I own a couple of Ar15's in Grendel.
Couple of large ar10 types in Creedmoore.
A Cz mini action in Grendel.
A Cz regular action in Creedmore.
Ruger American in Creedmoore.
Ruger precision in Creedmore.

I wouldn't mind a few old military surplus rifles in those other oddball 6.5 cartridges.
Not the Carcano.

Got a Rem 700 bdl I would like converted to 6.5-06 someday.
The original 30-06 barrel only shoots 2 1\2" groups at best.
Nice to look at, just not very accurate.
 
@Talyn - - Thank you for posting this. I replied in another post about how I came to be a "fan boy" of the 6.5 Creedmoor. Do I think that it is the be-all, do-all, end-all of cartridges? No I don't. It's all about bullet selection. Pick a bullet which will accomplish the desired task and use that. Push it out the muzzle at a speed which will allow it to perform as needed. Job accomplished.

For whatever mix of historical and technical reasons, the 6.5 caliber seems to hit that "sweet spot" of bullet length-to-caliber ratio in cartridges which fit well in various bolt actions without cramming the bullet too deep into the case. Also, the 6.5 cartridges, barring the bigger magnums, seem to hit the sweet spot of powder charge to bore diameter / bullet weight ratio, providing excellent internal and external ballistics. It does so without pounding the shooter with rifle recoil. Happy times!

I don't think that there is any "magic" in the 6.5 caliber. The 6.5 caliber enjoys the happy coincidence of the balance of the dimensions of available physical actions and the cartridges they are chambered for. This allows for an optimal bullet caliber to bullet length ratio plus an optimal ratio powder charge to bullet weight.

The same characteristics can be had in any other caliber. By caliber I mean bullet diameter, not cartridge denomination. However, too often the aforementioned ballistic characteristics get "out of whack" (a highly technical ballistics phrase) or the physical dimensions of the resulting cartridges prove less than ideal in available actions / magazines. Seeking the desired levels of balance between action length, magazine length, bullet caliber and length, cartridge case dimensions to allow "proper" seating, and case capacity for an appropriate charge of an appropriate powder has kept ballistic experimenters busy for decades.

On the topic of bolt action length, it took a number of years after the introduction of the 308 Winchester for rifle makers to create what we now know as a "short action". But the "short action" is too short for appropriate bullet seating in certain caliber / cartridge case combinations. And the old standard "long action" is noticeably too long for ideal fit. We now also have a "mini action" length available from a couple of manufacturers (CZ and Howa) that is perfect for the 223 / 6mm ARC / 6.5 Grendel / etc. Custom bolt action manufacturers are beginning to catch on and make a "medium action" that is a perfect fit for certain bullet / caliber / cartridge combinations. Having an action length that allows for "perfect" cartridge overall length without having to "shoehorn in" the cartridge fit or without a lot of left over extra space is very desirable in my book.

Also, keep in mind that ballistic performance goals have changed over the years. In former decades, the mantra of many was "more speed" in order to achieve flatter trajectories and greater terminal performance of bullets. In the most recent times, the focus has shifted to upping the game in terms of bullet technology by increasing BCs. The 6.5 has benefitted greatly from the success of these efforts. We are now seeing the fruit of what has been learned in other calibers as well. There is a similar trend of faster rifling twists and longer-for-caliber bullets developing in 25 caliber and in 27 caliber. But it was all started by the success of the 6.5!
 
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@Talyn - - Thank you for posting this. I replied in another post about how I came to be a "fan boy" of the 6.5 Creedmoor. Do I think that it is the be-all, do-all, end-all of cartridges? No I don't. It's all about bullet selection. Pick a bullet which will accomplish the desired task and use that. Push it out the muzzle at a speed which will allow it to perform as needed. Job accomplished.

For whatever mix of historical and technical reasons, the 6.5 caliber seems to hit that "sweet spot" of bullet length-to-caliber ratio in cartridges which fit well in various bolt actions without cramming the bullet too deep into the case. Also, the 6.5 cartridges, barring the bigger magnums, seem to hit the sweet spot of powder charge to bore diameter / bullet weight ratio, providing excellent internal and external ballistics. It does so without pounding the shooter with rifle recoil. Happy times!

I don't think that there is any "magic" in the 6.5 caliber. The 6.5 caliber enjoys the happy coincidence of the balance of the dimensions of available physical actions and the cartridges they are chambered for. This allows for an optimal bullet caliber to bullet length ratio plus an optimal ratio powder charge to bullet weight.

The same characteristics can be had in any other caliber. By caliber I mean bullet diameter, not cartridge denomination. However, too often the aforementioned ballistic characteristics get "out of whack" (a highly technical ballistics phrase) or the physical dimensions of the resulting cartridges prove less than ideal in available actions / magazines. Seeking the desired levels of balance between action length, magazine length, bullet caliber and length, cartridge case dimensions to allow "proper" seating, and case capacity for an appropriate charge of an appropriate powder has kept ballistic experimenters busy for decades.

On the topic of bolt action length, it took a number of years after the introduction of the 308 Winchester for rifle makers to create what we now know as a "short action". But the "short action" is too short for appropriate bullet seating in certain caliber / cartridge case combinations. And the old standard "long action" is noticeably too long for ideal fit. We now also have a "mini action" length available from a couple of manufacturers (CZ and Howa) that is perfect for the 223 / 6mm ARC / 6.5 Grendel / etc. Custom bolt action manufacturers are beginning to catch on and make a "medium action" that is a perfect fit for certain bullet / caliber / cartridge combinations. Having an action length that allows for "perfect" cartridge overall length without having to "shoehorn in" the cartridge fit or without a lot of left over extra space is very desirable in my book.

Also, keep in mind that ballistic performance goals have changed over the years. In former decades, the mantra of many was "more speed" in order to achieve flatter trajectories and greater terminal performance of bullets. In the most recent times, the focus has shifted to upping the game in terms of bullet technology by increasing BCs. The 6.5 has benefitted greatly from the success of these efforts. We are now seeing the fruit of what has been learned in other calibers as well. There is a similar trend of faster rifling twists and longer-for-caliber bullets developing in 25 caliber and in 27 caliber. But it was all started by the success of the 6.5!
I think we're going to see the 25CM is a better (ballistic) mousetrap in terms of barrel life over the 6.5CM.
 
I think we're going to see the 25CM is a better (ballistic) mousetrap in terms of barrel life over the 6.5CM.
Based on the ratio of powder capacity to bore cross-section area the 25CM will have a higher Overbore Index value, than the 6.5CM, which leads to "lower" barrel life.

P.O. Ackley was one of the first who recognized this situation.


P.O. Ackley Improved cartridges are often considered "overbore," meaning they have large powder capacity relative to a small bore diameter, typically using a 40-degree shoulder to increase efficiency and velocity. While Ackley designed high-velocity, overbore cartridges like the .22-250 AI or .220 Swift AI, he generally aimed for efficient powder combustion rather than just creating "barrel burners".

Key aspects of Ackley's approach to overbore and improved cartridges include:
  • Design Philosophy: Manson Reamers indicates that Ackley Improved cartridges, designed by Parker Otto (P.O.) Ackley, feature a 40-degree shoulder angle, reducing body taper for increased case capacity.
  • Overbore Examples: Common Ackley Improved (AI) cartridges regarded as overbore include the 22-250 AI, .220 Swift AI, and .22-284, which are known to push velocities to 4000fps or higher.
  • Performance vs. Life: While these cartridges achieve high velocity, they can cause faster barrel erosion, or "burn out" the barrel faster due to the increased, concentrated heat.
  • Practicality: Ackley's designs often allowed for the safe firing of standard factory ammunition to form the improved brass, providing increased velocity with improved brass life.
  • Favorite Cartridges: Despite designing many overbore, high-velocity cartridges, it is noted that Guns and Ammo stated Ackley was not a fan of huge overbore magnums. His favorites often included the .250-3000 Improved and smaller cartridges like the .22 Hornet Improved.


As first posted above this article (a bit dated) shows a variety of cartridges with Overbore Index values.

 
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I think we're going to see the 25CM is a better (ballistic) mousetrap in terms of barrel life over the 6.5CM.
It might very well prove to be so. It has prompted some new activity in development of better (for long distance) projectiles in .257 diameter. I hope that 25 caliber catches up with and surpasses the 6.5. That'd "prove" exactly what I was trying to verbalize above: That any caliber, given the proper bullets seated to the proper length and placed into an action / barrel / twist combo that is suitable to the resulting physical cartridge dimensions can provide excellent results.

I'd love it if EVERY caliber had options (bullets / powders / cartridge cases / actions / barrels) that would perform to the level that 6.5 does currently. Like I said, there is no real "magic" in the 6.5, just a delightful balance of the necessary attributes for outstanding long range performance and accuracy. I believe that the next big gains to be had for calibers up and down the scale from 6.5 is in powders. Hodgdon did us reloaders a solid by putting SuperFormance, 6.5 StaBall, and StaBall Match on the market. I hope they extend this line of development up and down the scale. Extruded SuperFormance and StaBall performance powders anyone? Yes, please. ;-)
 
Based on the ratio of powder capacity to bore cross-section area the 25CM will have a higher Overbore Index value, than the 6.5CM, which leads to "lower" barrel life.

P.O. Ackley was one of the first who recognized this situation.


P.O. Ackley Improved cartridges are often considered "overbore," meaning they have large powder capacity relative to a small bore diameter, typically using a 40-degree shoulder to increase efficiency and velocity. While Ackley designed high-velocity, overbore cartridges like the .22-250 AI or .220 Swift AI, he generally aimed for efficient powder combustion rather than just creating "barrel burners".

Key aspects of Ackley's approach to overbore and improved cartridges include:
  • Design Philosophy: Manson Reamers indicates that Ackley Improved cartridges, designed by Parker Otto (P.O.) Ackley, feature a 40-degree shoulder angle, reducing body taper for increased case capacity.
  • Overbore Examples: Common Ackley Improved (AI) cartridges regarded as overbore include the 22-250 AI, .220 Swift AI, and .22-284, which are known to push velocities to 4000fps or higher.
  • Performance vs. Life: While these cartridges achieve high velocity, they can cause faster barrel erosion, or "burn out" the barrel faster due to the increased, concentrated heat.
  • Practicality: Ackley's designs often allowed for the safe firing of standard factory ammunition to form the improved brass, providing increased velocity with improved brass life.
  • Favorite Cartridges: Despite designing many overbore, high-velocity cartridges, it is noted that Guns and Ammo stated Ackley was not a fan of huge overbore magnums. His favorites often included the .250-3000 Improved and smaller cartridges like the .22 Hornet Improved.


As first posted above this article (a bit dated) shows a variety of cartridges with Overbore Index values.

Not so fast.

The article uses H2O capacity, not powder capacity. I believe that is very misleading.

For example, no one shoots a 6PPC with 33 grains of powder, or a 243 with 54 grains or a 270 with 66 grains of powder, or 30-06 with (gulp) 68 grains of powder. This is why people get often get confused over Ackley's work.

Gotta' account for that bullet in that equation of "overbore" to come up with your definition of efficiency. And powder burning is what erodes throats and barrels and degrades accuracy. And we want efficiency coupled with accuracy!

I would also submit to you that bore diameter and powder charge are far more consistent (and controllable) than case capacity. Sure, you can weigh your case as you sort them to reload, but you do that because you're trying to get consistent. And it effects your performance on paper (where it matters to me, not in the chest of a deer).

I prefer powder charge as a metric of case efficiency, not water capacity. Bullet weight is not unimportant, to be clear. We all know certain calibers behave differently with certain weights, which I suspect has to do with powder capacity and not H2O capacity.

If we look at the success of the PPC, its powder charge of 28 grains (for 65-68 grain bullets) is very close to bore capacity, bore capacity being one grain of powder for each square millimeter of the rifles bore cross sectional area.
 
In the simplest terms, a very big case pushing a relatively small diameter bullet is acknowledged as the classic overbore design.
Last time I checked .257 is less than .264, and since the case (capacity) is ~the same for both 6.5CM and .25CM then logic seems to say that the .25CM is likely to have a higher Overbore Index (no matter which way you measure it) than the 6.5CM, thus the latter would longer barrel life (not less) than the .25CM under normal use, and my 6mmCM likely has less barrel life than .25CM. But I use both of the cartridges under hunting conditions.

All that being said if you abuse either cartridge like some High-Power competition shooters do, like they did with the 6.5x284 (which I also have), then you'll wear out barrels much quicker than in general hunting use.

When I say "abuse" this article by Dan Lilja (I use his barrels) talks about factors affecting barrel life.


plus...


Competition shooters switch out barrels a lot quicker when they still have lots of good hunting life in them.

The italicized statement above is still the bottom-line.
 
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In the simplest terms, a very big case pushing a relatively small diameter bullet is acknowledged as the classic overbore design.
Last time I checked .257 is less than .264, and since the case (capacity) is ~the same for both 6.5CM and .25CM then logic seems to say that the .25CM is likely to have a higher Overbore Index (no matter which way you measure it) than the 6.5CM, thus the latter would longer barrel life (not less) than the .25CM under normal use, and my 6mmCM likely has less barrel life than .25CM. But I use both of the cartridges under hunting conditions.

All that being said if you abuse either cartridge like some High-Power competition shooters do, like they did with the 6.5x284 (which I also have), then you'll wear out barrels much quicker than in general hunting use.

When I say "abuse" this article by Dan Lilja (I use his barrels) talks about factors affecting barrel life.


plus...


Competition shooters switch out barrels a lot quicker when they still have lots of good hunting life in them.

The italicized statement above is still the bottom-line.
Like .007” … same as a 280 Rem vs 270 Win.

But yes, the 25 CM represents the next evolution in the Creedmoor family.

A quick check of the latest stats in PRS shows that the top 200 PRS pros in 2025, 25 calibers like the 25 Creedmoor (6%) and 25×47 Lapua (7%) are gaining traction, though 6mm Dasher dominates at 46%. The 6.5 Creedmoor holds 5%, and 6mm Creedmoor is fading (3%).
 
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