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Barring people under 21 from buying handguns is unconstitutional.

I was just making the point that there are a lot of different ages when certain things kick in.
Yes there are. Can you name any of them that are constitutionally protected rights though? Other than voting. Which I should point out that your party wants to lower the age for that to 16. And don't take that as a dig brother. I have no beef with you or your politics ( which you readily admit to and which I respect you for). We're on the same side of the 2A debate and this is a gun forum so......
 
I know it’s always been 21 years old to buy a handgun in Ohio, been that way since I was a youngin…….
Missouri has always been that way too. Those are state laws and technically constitute infringement on the 2A in my opinion. Growing up my old man bought me a few handguns before I was 21. Long before I was 21. He also trained me and brought me up around them and knew very well that I wouldn't do anything stupid with them. In no small part because if I did he would kick the crap out of me and I knew it.

Yeah, some people are too immature or stupid to have a gun at 16. Some people are too stupid or immature to have a gun at 50. And we are making a distinction here between handguns and long guns which I frankly don't understand. Yeah, the kid can have an 18" Mossberg 500 and a couple ARs, but oh no, we can't let him have a 1911. It just seems like pointless, feel good crap that has no bearing on crime. Which we have to assume since the only difference between an AR and a handgun is concealability, crime must be the reason we are making the argument for a 21 year old minimum for a handgun, right?

What is the rationalization for banning handgun purchases for those under 21 ? What is it you think an 18 year old is going to do with a handgun that he wouldn't do with a long gun ? And when you answer that question stop and think that the argument you just made is the exact same argument anti-gun politicians make every time they propose a ban on "Assault weapons" or high capacity magazines.
 
Yes there are. Can you name any of them that are constitutionally protected rights though? Other than voting. Which I should point out that your party wants to lower the age for that to 16. And don't take that as a dig brother. I have no beef with you or your politics ( which you readily admit to and which I respect you for). We're on the same side of the 2A debate and this is a gun forum so......
Yeah, no worries. I didn't think you were beefing. Voting at 16...I'm not sure where I stand on that one. I'll have to give that some thought. 16 year olds do dumb things. That's an interesting question, whether there is a right to run for office. I can't recall any caselaw of the subject, as there is with the right to vote, but aside from the limitations in the Constitution I can't think of a good argument that it ISN'T a right at the moment. Sure, there are restrictions, but there are on all the rights. I'll have to study that question, too.
 
Yeah, no worries. I didn't think you were beefing. Voting at 16...I'm not sure where I stand on that one. I'll have to give that some thought. 16 year olds do dumb things. That's an interesting question, whether there is a right to run for office. I can't recall any caselaw of the subject, as there is with the right to vote, but aside from the limitations in the Constitution I can't think of a good argument that it ISN'T a right at the moment. Sure, there are restrictions, but there are on all the rights. I'll have to study that question, too.
I will argue all day long that young, stupid kids voting is much more dangerous than young, stupid kids being able to have a handgun as opposed to an AR.
 
I don’t remember where I read this but I believe there is a study that says the human brain actually doesn’t reach “adult” maturity until 25
Now I’m not advocating major changes in laws based on that but I’ll stand ground on the 21 age for handgun purchases.
 
I don’t remember where I read this but I believe there is a study that says the human brain actually doesn’t reach “adult” maturity until 25
Now I’m not advocating major changes in laws based on that but I’ll stand ground on the 21 age for handgun purchases.

Fair enough. Care to justify your stand ? What I mean is what legal argument are you basing it on ? Or to be more direct, what is it that you think a person under 21 is going to do with a handgun as opposed to an AR-15 ? And is it a similar argument to the one that gun control proponents make about you having an AR-15? Or 400 30 round mags ? Or silencers and SBRs ? They say you having that stuff is causing gun violence right? Which is ridiculous. See where I'm going with this ?
 
In a divided decision, a three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 4th Circuit said the minimum age requirement for purchases from federally licensed gun dealers restricts the rights of law-abiding citizens and draws an arbitrary, unjustified line.

Gun laws barring sales to people under 21 are unconstitutional, appeals court rules (msn.com)

I can't wait to see how this works out on appeal. This has the potential to be a landmark case.
Unfortunately and true to the anti-gun argument, the one dissenting judge's claim was that they were basically approving putting handguns into the hands of that "age group" who typically causes the most damage with firearms. Hard to argue with that assertion since most gang members and hoods are in that age group. Now that's not a direct quote of his dissent, but close enough to describe his asinine reasoning, nor is it a condemnation of that age group by me.

I'm not sure where I stand on this particular issue except to acknowledge that even at 18 one has a guaranteed 2nd amendment right to "keep and bear" arms, unless and until they themselves forfeit that right by doing something stupid like a shooting, armed robbery, or a gang hit, etc, etc. So the question at this point is, can we/society afford to allow those in that age bracket to be handgun armed with no restrictions until they do something stupid, or do we/society place some reasonable restrictions/prohibitions on that same group to help prevent that stupidity? And Bassbob has already made a good case for 'what difference does it make whether a handgun or long gun?

At the same time I acknowledge there is much scientific evidence that the human brain doesn't fully conform to certain standards of maturity, clear thinking/reasoning, common sense/logic, and even sympathy and compassion for others until a few years later. It would be such a simple answer if only we could determine those who will do stupid things before they do them, and those who won't. That's a question most any/all parents would give a fortune to know the answer to when they first bring a little one into this world.

I often make the argument that 'way back in the day' almost every >16 yr old had a shotgun or rifle hanging in a rack in the back window of his truck even when parked at school and there was never any mass shootings like we see today, and few of us ever had a need or a want for a handgun at that age. But then I recognize that those kids had a much different upbringing than most of today's kids. Personally, I don't recall even having an interest in handguns until I was in my early to mid 20's. Certainly that's not a qualifier to this question, just a point of fact for me.

Is the upbringing what has caused all the differences in kid's attitudes and actions today compared to back then, is it too much social media and/or immediate gratification they have access to, is it the world of violent video games and access to so much of the outside world that kids a couple generations ago did not have? I don't know those answers, but I do know those serious differences do exist and play a big part in how mature some kids are today compared to back then.

So, in the end, I'm still undecided on the handgun issue. I don't know the answer, but I do know that what we're doing to our country, our world, and especially our kids today ain't it.
 
I still say it is a constitutional/legal issue. Is an individual a legal adult at 18? If so, what legal precedent gives the government the right to deny that legal adult the ability to exercise their RIGHT to keep and bear arms? The Constitution doesn’t differentiate between handguns and rifles. It doesn’t say that the government can restrict that right until they think you are mature enough to handle it. The Constitution says that the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
 
Most gang bangers are black or Latino. Hell, most gun crime is committed by blacks and Latinos. Should we ban them from owning handguns?
 
Fair enough. Care to justify your stand ? What I mean is what legal argument are you basing it on ? Or to be more direct, what is it that you think a person under 21 is going to do with a handgun as opposed to an AR-15 ? And is it a similar argument to the one that gun control proponents make about you having an AR-15? Or 400 30 round mags ? Or silencers and SBRs ? They say you having that stuff is causing gun violence right? Which is ridiculous. See where I'm going with this ?
Fortunately I don’t have to “justify” my stand with you or anyone else since it’s my opinion and how I feel on the subject. If that bothers or concerns you in any way so be it I don’t care.
 
I do not believe we will come to a consensus here on this topic.
But it is something that’ll need to be addressed, sometime, somehow.

Be prepared to let your representatives know your opinion.
 
I do not believe we will come to a consensus here on this topic.
But it is something that’ll need to be addressed, sometime, somehow.

Be prepared to let your representatives know your opinion.

Yes this ruling really has opened a can of worms. As I see it, making one size fit all doesn't work in the real world. I look at this as a question of a statistical nature: what's the percentage of 18 year-olds that we can trust to be a responsible handgun owner vs the percentage of those who won't be responsible and can't be trusted. Based on what I see happening across the county the answer bothers me. Perhaps choosing one side over the other isn't the solution either. This question will take much study and lots of compromise.
 
In a divided decision, a three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 4th Circuit said the minimum age requirement for purchases from federally licensed gun dealers restricts the rights of law-abiding citizens and draws an arbitrary, unjustified line.

Gun laws barring sales to people under 21 are unconstitutional, appeals court rules (msn.com)

I can't wait to see how this works out on appeal. This has the potential to be a landmark case.

The news is traveling fast. More of the same news from different article and source:

 
The news is traveling fast. More of the same news from different article and source:

As good an argument as any I've seen on this issue. And it applies across the spectrum, regardless of age. From the article:

"Wynn is backed by gun control advocates who point out that 18-to-20-year-olds commit gun homicides at a rate four times higher than adults 21 and older do. It is rather irresponsible, however, that they would use these statistics to advocate gun control given that 18-to-20-year-olds cannot legally buy a handgun — therefore proving that the law doesn’t work.

Like all gun control measures, laws that prevent 18-to-20-year-olds from buying guns only stop law abiding citizens from defending themselves and do nothing to prevent criminals from obtaining weapons."
 
Fortunately I don’t have to “justify” my stand with you or anyone else since it’s my opinion and how I feel on the subject. If that bothers or concerns you in any way so be it I don’t care.
Well that’s up to you dude. It’s kinda how a discussion works. You are free to make as many statements you are unwilling or unable to back up as you like. It’s a free-ish country.
 
Well that’s up to you dude. It’s kinda how a discussion works. You are free to make as many statements you are unwilling or unable to back up as you like. It’s a free-ish country.
“Dude” I don’t have to back my opinion based on my feelings? This is not a discussion on what’s the best type of grip for a 1911!!!
On that note I’m done with you on this.
 
“Dude” I don’t have to back my opinion based on my feelings? This is not a discussion on what’s the best type of grip for a 1911!!!
On that note I’m done with you on this.
I just said you didn’t. You are perfectly free to state an opinion without giving your reason for it. It happens all the time. But this is the second time today you have copped out of a discussion about FACTS, by saying it’s your opinion or your feelings. If you don’t have a logical counter just say it. Your feelings haven’t got anything to do with constitutional law.
 
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