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Bring Back Mental Institutions

Grayfox

Grayfox

Professional
With this latest shooting in Minneapolis, once again a nut job has taken innocent lives. The Dems will scream gun control, but as we all know, it ain't about guns. Its about mental illness and its become epidemic in our nation.
Enough is enough! I just sent e-mails to both my Senators, my Representative and my state legislators calling for the return of mental institutions. We lock criminals away for our protection. Sick people go to hospitals. Why shouldn't the mentally ill be confined for the general public's safety?
Of course the left will go on and on about they have rights. That's what ended those institutions to start with. But don't we, the citizens have a right to be safe from them?
We will have to be careful about this. Laws will have to be changed. Both Doctors and Judges will have to legally deem these people a threat to themselves and others. A suspected person will probably have to be held for a few days and be properly evaluated by professionals.
If a mentally ill person commits a crime and gets arrested, it will likely be obvious that they need help. But what about the many who fly under the radar? Surely, family and friends will see the signs, but can they turn this person in and get them help. One of the big worries about "Red Flag" laws was that people would use them against innocent people for revenge purposes. Could that happen here?
Discussion is open. What y'all think?
 
NMEDGE said:
Yes we need them. Only problem is can we afford to build them as I feel there will be thousands that need them.
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here in New England, we do have right now, hospitals that are abandoned for one reason or another.

there are nursing homes as well, empty.

my state also has at least 1 building at the prison not in use.

there are high rise buildings also, here and many other states, that can be used to house'em.

many possibilities, and if not...many states have land that is available to build on.

we all get taxed enough to take in the illegals...there ya go...money

i'd be certain the feds would kick in monies as well to build them.

thing is, way more people are against locking them up, saying such stupid things as..."its cruel, they get no actual mental illness help".

its called DRUGS.......keep'em doped upped, and locked up.
 
www.cbsnews.com

The Minneapolis school shooter fired at children through church windows. Here's what we know.

Two children are dead and more are injured after a shooting at a back-to-school mass at Annunciation Catholic Church in Minneapolis.
www.cbsnews.com www.cbsnews.com

“Three law enforcement sources told CBS News the shooter was Robin Westman, 23, from suburban Minneapolis. Westman's name was officially changed from Robert Westman to Robin Westman in 2020, documents show. Westman appears to have attended the school, according to CBS News' Confirmed team.”

Another article says “his” mom had to sign the legal documents for the name change from Robert to Robin because he was a minor. Perhaps if she’d got him into therapy instead of signing and paying for the legal name change documents, today might not have happened?

I realize a working mom likely didn’t engage much, and as long as there are the masses out there promotion transgender lifestyles, mutilation surgeries to further their ideology, and non-stop political support for such lifestyles, these things will likely continue (mental health breakdowns resulting in innocent deaths).

I concur completely that treating these mental health issues need the most focus. Unfortunately, it’s probably more 10s of thousands than thousands.
 
Lab4Us said:
www.cbsnews.com

The Minneapolis school shooter fired at children through church windows. Here's what we know.

Two children are dead and more are injured after a shooting at a back-to-school mass at Annunciation Catholic Church in Minneapolis.
www.cbsnews.com www.cbsnews.com

“Three law enforcement sources told CBS News the shooter was Robin Westman, 23, from suburban Minneapolis. Westman's name was officially changed from Robert Westman to Robin Westman in 2020, documents show. Westman appears to have attended the school, according to CBS News' Confirmed team.”

Another article says “his” mom had to sign the legal documents for the name change from Robert to Robin because he was a minor. Perhaps if she’d got him into therapy instead of signing and paying for the legal name change documents, today might not have happened?

I realize a working mom likely didn’t engage much, and as long as there are the masses out there promotion transgender lifestyles, mutilation surgeries to further their ideology, and non-stop political support for such lifestyles, these things will likely continue (mental health breakdowns resulting in innocent deaths).

I concur completely that treating these mental health issues need the most focus. Unfortunately, it’s probably more 10s of thousands than thousands.
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we can thank social media for pushing anything on anyone....
 
HayesGreener said:
Mentally ill persons who are dangerous and need confinement are very few. We are talking about a small number of facilities for those. The trick is knowing which ones are dangerous. Taking a person's freedom will still need some due process and court orders.
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Spent three years as a Detective in LAPD’s Mental Evaluation Unit, and not because I-was one!! California had and may still have Sychistric Hospitals. Napa State comes to mind, but many were closed. Problem is…5150WIC stated that anyone a danger to self or others or unable to care for self or others could be placed on a 72 hour hold. After that t was the job of Unit 3 (psych ward) at L.A. County General Hospital to make a further determination. And I am sure the were under the same constraints to release inmates as cops were to lower crimes. There are a LOT of 5150s roaming the streets no-one talks about. Mind you this was over 30 years ago, way before Columbine, lot has changed. Modern generation, lots of confused loners, who insist they are constantly being wronged. Not blaming access to firearms, here, just the users.

I am “the” church security here, and everyone Fi these incidents makes me more conscious of WHAT could happen. Most of the older, I am 80, congregation, mostly old ladies would have a fit of they knew. Was always carrying, bit I do and will. Have a grandson who is a loner, 17, who I am not sure of, and, yes, be is always under supervision when we are out shooting. Sad…
 
HayesGreener said:
Mentally ill persons who are dangerous and need confinement are very few. We are talking about a small number of facilities for those. The trick is knowing which ones are dangerous. Taking a person's freedom will still need some due process and court orders.
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We just finished mental health refresher training at our school. Per the instructor only 4% of those committing criminal violent acts have mental health issues. Yet, $$$ and training for mental health are saturating our institutions, not to mention influencing public policy. I said before here that I fear we are walking into a trap. Having a mental health "professional" dictate actions which could infringe on our rights is what is scary, from gun purchases to Silver Alert laws, which restrict movement and freedom of association. Just sayin'.
 
Cedric said:
We just finished mental health refresher training at our school. Per the instructor only 4% of those committing criminal violent acts have mental health issues. Yet, $$$ and training for mental health are saturating our institutions, not to mention influencing public policy. I said before here that I fear we are walking into a trap. Having a mental health "professional" dictate actions which could infringe on our rights is what is scary, from gun purchases to Silver Alert laws, which restrict movement and freedom of association. Just sayin'.
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I’m sure that 4% statistic is in one text book or another, but based on the definitions, I’d have to argue it’s likely way more than 4%.

“Antisocial Personality Disorder (ASPD):
.
This is the official diagnosis in the DSM-5. It's a Cluster B personality disorder characterized by a pervasive pattern of disregard for the rights of others, impulsivity, deceitfulness, and a lack of empathy.

Sociopathy:
.
This term was formerly used to describe the same set of behaviors as ASPD, and some clinicians still use it interchangeably with ASPD to refer to the environmental and societal factors influencing the disorder.

Psychopathy:
.
While not a diagnosis in the DSM-5, some researchers consider it a specific set of traits that may represent a more severe variant of ASPD, often linked to genetic and neurobiological factors.

In essence, a mental health professional does not diagnose someone as a "sociopath" or a "psychopath". Instead, they would formally diagnose the individual with Antisocial Personality Disorder (ASPD) and may describe specific associated traits using the terms "psychopathy" or "sociopathy" to better understand the person's unique presentation.”
 
Lab4Us said:
I’m sure that 4% statistic is in one text book or another, but based on the definitions, I’d have to argue it’s likely way more than 4%.

“Antisocial Personality Disorder (ASPD):
.
This is the official diagnosis in the DSM-5. It's a Cluster B personality disorder characterized by a pervasive pattern of disregard for the rights of others, impulsivity, deceitfulness, and a lack of empathy.

Sociopathy:
.
This term was formerly used to describe the same set of behaviors as ASPD, and some clinicians still use it interchangeably with ASPD to refer to the environmental and societal factors influencing the disorder.

Psychopathy:
.
While not a diagnosis in the DSM-5, some researchers consider it a specific set of traits that may represent a more severe variant of ASPD, often linked to genetic and neurobiological factors.

In essence, a mental health professional does not diagnose someone as a "sociopath" or a "psychopath". Instead, they would formally diagnose the individual with Antisocial Personality Disorder (ASPD) and may describe specific associated traits using the terms "psychopathy" or "sociopathy" to better understand the person's unique presentation.”
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Yes, word softening. From Sociopathy and Psychopathy to ASPD. From Shell Shock to Battle Fatigue to Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.
 
Lab4Us said:
I’m sure that 4% statistic is in one text book or another, but based on the definitions, I’d have to argue it’s likely way more than 4%.

“Antisocial Personality Disorder (ASPD):
.
This is the official diagnosis in the DSM-5. It's a Cluster B personality disorder characterized by a pervasive pattern of disregard for the rights of others, impulsivity, deceitfulness, and a lack of empathy.

Sociopathy:
.
This term was formerly used to describe the same set of behaviors as ASPD, and some clinicians still use it interchangeably with ASPD to refer to the environmental and societal factors influencing the disorder.

Psychopathy:
.
While not a diagnosis in the DSM-5, some researchers consider it a specific set of traits that may represent a more severe variant of ASPD, often linked to genetic and neurobiological factors.

In essence, a mental health professional does not diagnose someone as a "sociopath" or a "psychopath". Instead, they would formally diagnose the individual with Antisocial Personality Disorder (ASPD) and may describe specific associated traits using the terms "psychopathy" or "sociopathy" to better understand the person's unique presentation.”
Click to expand...
I am not trying to minimize the problem and you're likely right about it being greater than 4%. As before, I'm just being cautious about going down the mental health road.
 
Simple fact, today or population is way more than double what it was in the 1950’s, yet we are operating somewhere around 30-35% of the psych beds we were then. Giving the number of individual with serious mental illness its pretty obvious we are not doing enough. If you doubt this, look at the huge numbers of “homeless” in the country. A large percentage of those would have been in an institution for their own protection in years gone by.
 
Grayfox said:
Of course the left will go on and on about they have rights. That's what ended those institutions to start with.
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My wife works in this industry and there are plenty of mental institutions, but their effectiveness has been eroded down to the bare minimum by the right continually cutting budgets for mental healthcare. I’m sure that’s not a popular sentiment but it’s truth. Even recently with all the problems we’ve had with shootings in Texas, Governor Abbott and his administration have decimated the mental healthcare system and have started filling mental institutions with hard core criminals, denying services to people with genuine mental
health issues. BTW, your average doctor and/or psychiatrist is barely adequately trained for evaluating mental issues and 99.9% of the time will prescribe meds rather than getting to the root cause of the problem.
 
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