testtest

D&L Sports .45 ACP GSP Ammunition Review

A 200 grain .45 round nose at nearly 900 ft/sec is not a pipsqueak load, but I'm very dubious about the tiny little shoulder increasing the terminal effect. I remember reading a test where Keith-type bullets were painted black and fired into ballistic gelatin that had been "fortified" with some abrasive. The flat front of the recovered SWCs had the paint worn off from passing through the gelatin, but the shoulders were untouched, showing they had little or no role in creating a bigger wound channel. This led to the development of cast bullets with very large meplats, sometimes called "long flat nose" or "wide flat nose." I'd be interested in knowing if the full diameter shoulder of this .45 ammo has experimentally demonstrated increased terminal effect.
 
This is not a new concept. I have a couple of bullet molds for the .45 ACP that cast that same exact bullet. They feed well and cut a nice round hole in paper. However, I doubt that they work that way in flesh as the round nose is going to be pushing the flesh out of the way of the shoulder.
 
(y)TYVM, Mike.
Will have to check these out if I can get my hands on some. Found their website. Not cheap, for sure.
Recently picked up an SA XD-M Elite 45ACP. The unfortunate part is that I picked it up before the current promo for extra mags and the range bag. 😦
 
Upon separation from the Army in 1968 I joined LAPD shooting a S&W Model 15 combat masterpiece with 158gr lead RN Terrible cartridge ) but chose the 148gr SWC target loads to carry which was used for qualifications at the time ( except for inspections) for the first pistol I ever shot, later I joined a police department ( 1970's I believe), who's weapon of choice was the Colt MKIV series 70 shooting the infamous Winchester Black Talons. I am in the process of putting a Holsun dot sight on a .45 Commander as a carry firearm, My ammunition of choice would be Honey Badger but with this review I'll look for these .45ACP GSP ! I have retired as a Range master from a Sheriffs dept, having seen that department transition to semi-auto from revolvers and .38 to option carry in defernt calibres. My favorite is still the 1911 style in .45ACP and the cartridge that can't be beat in my books.
 
Skimmer90 said:
(y)TYVM, Mike.
Will have to check these out if I can get my hands on some. Found their website. Not cheap, for sure.
Recently picked up an SA XD-M Elite 45ACP. The unfortunate part is that I picked it up before the current promo for extra mags and the range bag. 😦
Click to expand...
Can you please share the link?
 
I use 9mm ball or ball on any caliber I am using. I want max penetration. Hardcast, nylon coated ammo gives tremendous penetration. But can't find it any more. I like this ,45 ammo in this thread because of the coating, but it all depends on if the coating improves penetration. My tests of .45 way back showed .45 to have poor penetration compared to other calibers. Here are some of my old and newer tests for penetration. I just went out in the garage to test a .45 ball in my current penetration setup. Results are at the end.

Here are a few penetration tests I did years ago with stacked newsprint / Kraft paper to give you an idea how various ammo performs. I got a cardboard box and packed it with new newsprint or new brown paper shopping bags. Pushed them down a bit and taped it shut and shot into it. (Depending how compressed the material is, your results will vary.)

.22 short 5/8 inch of newsprint (snubnose)
.22 quiet 1 inch of newsprint (snubnose)
.22 HVHP 2-3/8 inches of newsprint (snubnose)
.22 Stinger 3-1/4 inches of newsprint (snubnose)
.380 ball 3-3/8 inches of newsprint (Beretta)
.38 SP Federal ball 4 inches of newsprint (snubnose)
.357 Hornady plastic tip magnum 3-3/4 inches of compressed Kraft paper (snubnose) (a)
.357 Hornady plastic tip magnum 6 inches of compressed Kraft paper (Ruger 4" barrel) (a)
9mm Hornady 6-7/8 inches of newsprint (Beretta)
9mm Herter's nylon coated 10 inches of newsprint (Beretta)
.45 Auto ball 4 inches of newsprint (Colt 1911)

(a) Kraft paper offers about 25% more resistance than newsprint.)

I was making a transition from newsprint to Kraft paper with the tests, but never finished it. That is why the results vary in test material. I never tried them on other materials, so tests are limited.

From Buffalo Bore:

"Hard cast bullets may contain some lead and be grey in color, but that is where the similarities stop. Hard cast bullets can be formulated of numerous alloy mixes (antimony, silver, tin, etc) containing some lead, but the alloys make the bullet much harder than pure lead. Pure lead has a Brinell hardness # of about 4. Most hard cast bullets will have a Brinell hardness # of 11 to 30 and as such are several times harder than lead."

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=54

If they wanted to make some tremendous penetrating .22LR they would come up with solid copper bullets or hard cast alloy and nylon coated. Underwood Ammo has solid copper loaded ammo as well as coated hard cast, but have not tried them. Very $$. I will give them a try down the road.

In the summer of 2023, I started up penetration tests with all the old Uline catalogs I had built up over the years. I made a stack 6 inch deep in a box.

Here are a few of the results. These are done differently than the old tests. With the Uline catalog tests I measured penetration with a stiff wire to the end of the bullet through the hole. The old tests were done by actually digging through the paper and retrieving the bullet and measuring the penetration. So, the results below must have the bullet length added to the depth shown. But I'm not concerned with that. I was just after general penetration comparison.

Hellcat 9mm ball 2-1/2 inches
.22 Stinger 18-inch rifle, suppressed 1-3/16 inches
.380 S&W Bodyguard pistol 1-1/2 inches
.22 Subsonic Ruger pistol 9/16 inch
.22 Stinger Ruger pistol 7/8 inch
.38 Hornady defense round snubnose revolver 1-5/16 inches
.22 CB cap 18-inch rifle 1/2 inch
5.7x28 FN PS90 18-inch barrel Federal American Eagle Ball 3-1/2 inches

It will be interesting to find some of my old Herter's (Cabela's) 9mm hardcast, nylon coated ammo to retest. They were very cheap, aluminum cased ammo. But they gave the best penetration of any ammo I had tested. But, once covid hit...that was it. I never found any again.

I just went out in the garage 5 minutes ago to test the .45 FMJ ball for this forum discussion. I got a .45 1911 Colt Custom Shop and a FN .45 's I need to get rid of. Hate .45's. The .45 FMJ in the FN produced a depth of 1-3/4 inches in the stack of Uline catalogs. And it made a big hole, plus a big concussion! So, I will give it that.

Point is, they had better figure out how to give the .45 more penetration. There are some scum out there that are easy newsprint and some of them are hard to penetrate Uline catalogs.


harvest fat 1886 (2).jpg
 
That little bitty shoulder won't do diddly in flesh, as has been pointed out over and over, here and virtually every other forum and test facility. If you want a round nose profile bullet that actually works quit screwing around and get some of the Lehigh Xtreme Defender bullets (Lehigh is now owned by Bill Wilson)! Loaded ammo from Lehigh (go to the Wilson Combat website as loaded ammo is no longer available on the Lehigh website) or Underwood. Bullets as components are available from the Lehigh website but you won't (maybe I should say WON'T) be able to match their velocities unless you have access to powders the regular reloaders like myself can't get! Not if staying within safe and mostly sane pressures, anyway!

The Lehigh bullet literally throws soft tissue to the sides as it passes through. The all copper bullets are barrier blind as well. I was pretty much sold by my own testing but when I saw a vid of a (previously killed) pig that was shot in the shoulder with a 9mm 90 gr bullet, which basically turned everything between the entrance hole and where the bullet stopped on the hide of the off side, into mush, I was sold. I carry the Lehigh bullet in all of my carry guns, no matter what caliber (my EDC is a Glock 29) from .380 ACP to .44 Mag.

Ok, so you believe (contrary to all the available evidence) that the Lehigh bullets are a "gimmick." Ok, so what? They can't possibly work any worse than ball so don't be foolish, carry them, and just hope everyone is right about them and they actually do work! You have nothing to lose except a couple or five bucks! And a whole lot to gain!
Cheers,
crkckr
 
HankB said:
A 200 grain .45 round nose at nearly 900 ft/sec is not a pipsqueak load, but I'm very dubious about the tiny little shoulder increasing the terminal effect. I remember reading a test where Keith-type bullets were painted black and fired into ballistic gelatin that had been "fortified" with some abrasive. The flat front of the recovered SWCs had the paint worn off from passing through the gelatin, but the shoulders were untouched, showing they had little or no role in creating a bigger wound channel. This led to the development of cast bullets with very large meplats, sometimes called "long flat nose" or "wide flat nose." I'd be interested in knowing if the full diameter shoulder of this .45 ammo has experimentally demonstrated increased terminal effect.
Click to expand...
Old John Browning had it right in his head when he came up with the 45 acp with a 200gr. bullet at 900fps.
I bought a bunch of Magtech 45acp with a 200gr. LSWC at 900fps. It has since been discontinued but I am happy to have 1000+ rounds stashed.
 
Interesting article. I doubt the .45 ACP will regain popularity over the 9mm due to capacity. I do see this cartridge as an option for those who only have one gun and don’t feel the need to invest time or money in practicing with range ammo and personal defense rounds.

Would be nice to see a recovered bullet from bare gelatin.
 
My last word on this is it boils down to bullet placement and even then there is no stopping on someone high on some of these drugs.
 
gordie said:
My last word on this is it boils down to bullet placement and even then there is no stopping on someone high on some of these drugs.
Click to expand...

When the CNS gets dumped, it doesn’t matter what they’re on—they’re down, right then.

Same thing with massive, rapid exsanguination…everyone goes into shock with 10% (give or take) of their blood outside of the pipes. Aorta hit will do that in seconds.

Big, deep holes, and lots of them fast.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top