I hate to disagree with my colleague, Dr. Dabbs but on this type of gun, give me a safety. To paraphrase his post,it's safe as long as you don't pull the trigger. Well yeah! It's even safer if I don't pick it up. One can make the argument, that these guns without a safety, are not unlike a revolver or a DA/SA semiautomatic but the trigger pull on those is much stiffer, than the pull on one of these. The first Shield I bought had no safety. When I got it home and found how little take-up it had before it went BANG, I took it back and exchanged it for one with a safety. For years, I have wondered what is "safe" about a Glock Safe Trigger, My finger or anything else that will fit in the trigger guard, will depress both triggers and make it discharge. I think quite a few people and several police departments have found that out. A gun like this without a safety is less safe, than one with a safety in the hands of a criminal, who has wrested it away from me or one of my grandkids, who finds it in pop's console or bedroom drawer.
Does the Hellcat Have a Safety?
- Thread starter Mike H.
- Start date
Rupert1911
Elite
I tried out a hellcat a couple weeks ago, nice little pistol but with my big hands my pinky wasn't on the grip even with the extended mag. I picked up my XDM 10 Wednesday, all I can say is WOW! I love it. I went for the 5.25 barrel with adjustable sights and she's super accurate and what a powerful round. Here's a great review/vid https://www.springfield-armory.com/xdm10kI admit I too like guns with safeties & hammers. DA/SA hammer down one in the pipe, or cocked & locked as is with my 1911. That being said, I have no problem with my XDM's because of the grip and trigger safeties that have to be actuated to override the firing pin disconnector.
Just the same, I'm still struggling with whether I want to get an XDM-10 first, or get the Hellcat first. If I procrastinate long enough and dither, eventually I'll have enough money set aside to buy both at once. Which is probably what will actually happen!
I wonder how many of those millions of first time gun buyers last year bought Glocks or other guns that only have a trigger safety? I wonder how many of those millions took a gun safety course or understand the concept of the brain and finger being the safety? I'm a big fan of a grip safety and the thumb safety although that doesn't mean those new gun buyers understand or would use a manual safety either. Here in Missouri anyone who can legally own a firearm can legally conceal carry a firearm without a license or training. For me, that's a scary thought.
Bassbob
Emissary
People have been accidentally shooting them selves and others with guns that have manual safeties for years and years.
I live near and work in St. Louis. Don’t look now but people have been carrying guns illegally with no training for years and years too. Can you show me some statistical evidence of states that have constitutional carry having a higher instance of accidents or gun injuries? I train because I want to. And I vehemently oppose government mandates for training in order to exercise your constitutional rights. Do we have mandatory training to exercise your 1st amendment rights? And who decides the scope of the training? I do not need the government’s permission to exercise my rights. And permit equals permission. If you’re scared, Illinois is right across the river. I hear they have mandatory training requirements, among other infringements.
Bassbob
Emissary
Furthermore the CCW class you take for your government permission slip is absolutely NOT training. Neither is you at the range practicing safe gun handling and target shooting. I’ve taken the class. I had a permit years ago. It’s a joke. I also remember when there was no carry of any kind in Missouri. You couldn’t even have a gun in your car. Did you feel safe then?
I think current Missouri gun laws are the best in the nation. And once we get the SAPA passed by both state houses we will be the model for all free states to follow.
I think current Missouri gun laws are the best in the nation. And once we get the SAPA passed by both state houses we will be the model for all free states to follow.
I often hear..." you have to go to driving school an pass a test to drive a car", from the make guns hard to get crowd. Obviously they don't understand the difference between a " right" and a "priveledge". That being said, anyone that buys a gun and does not seriously learn how it works and spend serious time firing it, has a single digit IQ.
"...absolutely NOT training. Neither is you at the range practicing safe gun handling and target shooting."
Curious as to how practicing safe gun handling and target shooting is not considered training? Just a friendly inquiry.
I think training and practice are used interchangeably, but should not be. I look at the two subjects from a military firearms instructor point of view where "practice" is something you do alone or by yourself, and "training" involves an instructor-to-student relationship."...absolutely NOT training. Neither is you at the range practicing safe gun handling and target shooting."
Curious as to how practicing safe gun handling and target shooting is not considered training? Just a friendly inquiry.
Yep, all a matter of semantics, and interchangeable.
Bassbob
Emissary
So you think being able to hit a target and not shoot your self is training? Hell, I was a full blown warrior by 10 years old then.
Bassbob
Emissary
Very true. None of which should preclude you from exercising your rights. Everyone is free to choose the level of time and effort they are willing to put into their own knowledge and understanding. They are not free to choose for someone else. Certainly not as a requirement for one to exercise their natural and constitutional rights.
You guys are over-thinking it. The descriptions are interchangeable. "Practice", "Training", " Drills", "Hands-on", etc, etc., can be done with or without a trainer/coach/mentor (those descriptions are interchangeable also 
), and can apply to more things than firearms. If Micheal Phelps for example is in a pool by himself and going through his chosen reptitions, and his "coach/trainer/mentor" is not there, is he "practicing", "training", or doing "drills"? Just my two cents worth.
), and can apply to more things than firearms. If Micheal Phelps for example is in a pool by himself and going through his chosen reptitions, and his "coach/trainer/mentor" is not there, is he "practicing", "training", or doing "drills"? Just my two cents worth.
Bassbob
Emissary
You guys are over-thinking it. The descriptions are interchangeable. "Practice", "Training", " Drills", "Hands-on", etc, etc., can be done with or without a trainer/coach/mentor (those descriptions are interchangeable also
A person with no prior experience who goes and buys a gun then takes an 8 hour CCW class and spends some time in a gun range is not trained brother. Except in gun laws, safe gun handling and possibly some level of marksmanship. That doesn’t make them “ Scary” or unfit to enjoy their natural and constitutional rights though.
I agree 100%. My original post was about the interchangeability of the words. How one applies those various descriptors is a personal choice.
If one attends the 8 hr CCW class, learns safe handling and storage applications, and knows their local laws, and aquires some level of marksmanship, then decides to go to the range by themself, with no coach/trainer/mentor/overseer on-hand, I still consider it "training". Others might call it practice, tuning-up muscle memory, etc. Just my personal perspective on it.
Bassbob
Emissary
Fair enough. My only point was to respond to the person who expressed an opinion that doing away with a permit was scary. The only thing that permit does besides let the government know who’s carrying and mandate you pay them a recurring fee is give you a minuscule amount of information you can easily get on your own for free.I agree 100%. My original post was about the interchangeability of the words. How one applies those various descriptors is a personal choice.
If one attends the 8 hr CCW class, learns safe handling and storage applications, and knows their local laws, and aquires some level of marksmanship, then decides to go to the range by themself, with no coach/trainer/mentor/overseer on-hand, I still consider it "training". Others might call it practice, tuning-up muscle memory, etc. Just my personal perspective on it.
via a Google search.
Practice - perform (an activity) or exercise (a skill) repeatedly or regularly in order to improve or maintain one's proficiency.
Training - teach (a person or animal) a particular skill or type of behavior through practice and instruction over a period of time.
My last comment, and I apologize as this is off topic.
Fair enough also
. Did my share of being a trainer during my Navy days, with Instructor, Curriculum Instructional Standards Specialist, and Master Training Specialist titles/codes to go with it, however they were not firearms related. I consider my times I get at the range these days as "self-training".