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Freedom of choice or tryanny?

I think I'll stay glad I got the polio vax when I was 5! Now, I was in the Army, I got more shots than Jim Beam!

As to RFK, Jr., when his family says he's a nut job, I believe them, when a lawyer is playing doctor, something isn't right. When he was in the business of suing pharma, his kids were vaccinated, go figure......

Folks should have the right to decide what's good for them, if they choose wrong, they might die, they have that right too; however, they don't have a right to infect me from their bad decision. :cool:
 
I’m not big on the whole pharmacy pushing doctors. Yes I’m a type 2 diabetic but I screwed my self with a sugar addiction. Personally I think the food we eat has to do with the problems that add to it. I still remember during the whole Covid thing happening and not missing work even when majority of my shift did.
 
Ha, some of us actually had careers in pharmaceuticals. Some of us actually sold anti-virals. Pushing an untested therapy that only had a EUA without the rigorous testing that most vaccines would normally be subjected to is criminal. Some Alex's who go off big mouthed and half-cocked spouting party line ignorance ought to stay in their lane, read up or sit down.

View attachment 92988
Polio, mmr and the like have been time and time again shown to be good. Typically, like with the Tylenol thing, these silly studies if anything show correlation, not causation. It’s not good science, it’s bogus and it’s either made up completely, which has been shown with RFK, or it’s rejected by peer review.

This is what i see in your picture

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I’m not big on the whole pharmacy pushing doctors. Yes I’m a type 2 diabetic but I screwed my self with a sugar addiction. Personally I think the food we eat has to do with the problems that add to it. I still remember during the whole Covid thing happening and not missing work even when majority of my shift did.
i too and a type 2 diabetic, and either me or the wife make sure we buy as much "organic" foods as possible, due to the additives of "high fructose corn syrup"....why the need to pump up foods with that..??

yes too, PRESERAVTIVES, in nearly EVERY canned or jarred or bottled item.

some tell me, how come our grand parents lived like forever...(many did die young however), reason..?? they did not have CHEMICAL preservatives..........

and many cooking fry pans, or other cookware, was coated with TEFLON...another chemical, that got into our bodies.

lab rats i tell you, we are lab rats.
 
There are many other things that caused those deaths besides just lack of vaccinations. Please peruse (or, in your words, research for decades and not a couple of hours) such things as homogenization of dairy, lack of nutrition (essential vitamins), etc. It wasn’t just vaccinations that flipped the juvenile death rate over those years.

The disastrous, AND FORCED, experimentation on humans with various untested COVID vaccines, as well as listing almost EVERY death during those years as due to COVID, when many were due to other underlying conditions, lost governmental health agencies a LOT of credibility.

I’m all for giving folks the opportunity to get vaccinated. And if a government requires them, they should actually be tested for the appropriate amount of time on the appropriate amount of subjects (which should ALL be volunteers).

Tuskegee Airmen anyone?
Homogenization of dairy was like the 20’s though….the mortality rate can be seen as recent as only 50 years ago from the 70’s to today. When kids start showing up in iron lung again what will you say?
 
i too and a type 2 diabetic, and either me or the wife make sure we buy as much "organic" foods as possible, due to the additives of "high fructose corn syrup"....why the need to pump up foods with that..??

yes too, PRESERAVTIVES, in nearly EVERY canned or jarred or bottled item.

some tell me, how come our grand parents lived like forever...(many did die young however), reason..?? they did not have CHEMICAL preservatives..........

and many cooking fry pans, or other cookware, was coated with TEFLON...another chemical, that got into our bodies.

lab rats i tell you, we are lab rats.

I had a set of grandparents that lived to be in their 90’s. My grandfather was doing the lawn when he tripped and fell (won’t get into gory details) then checked out. My great grandmother (his wife) had altimeters and bed ridden didn’t even know what happened.

One hobby I do is go do cemetery walks. I’ve seen the cemetery markers for young kids to the holy rollers of 80 & 90 year olds. Yes life was different back then.

I’ll be happy if I make it to my 80’s and complain at the Marine Corps Detachment meetings on how things have changed. Personally you are right on eating better and getting active. I know I’m not a 20 year old that can throw anything at my body but just a 47 year old that thinks 32 is normal.
 
Homogenization of dairy was like the 20’s though….the mortality rate can be seen as recent as only 50 years ago from the 70’s to today. When kids start showing up in iron lung again what will you say?
Did you miss this part of my post?

“ I’m all for giving folks the opportunity to get vaccinated. And if a government requires them, they should actually be tested for the appropriate amount of time on the appropriate amount of subjects (which should ALL be volunteers).”
 
Didn't watch the video. Got the two "jabs" because A: I had to, to keep my job, two years to retirement, B: I'm old, thought it was a good idea, and old enough to have seen the effects of polio in the generation before me. I'm a believer in vaccinations, kind off, sort of, maybe, losing faith, was once upon a time. Always against mandating vac. and once they started the boosters 1- however many and new vac.'s for younger and younger to the point the youngest had effectively zero chance of having lasting effects from covid, left a very bad taste in my mouth. In the end this turned into a giant kiss from the taxpayers to Pharma., pol.'s investing with insider knowledge, Dr.'s on the payroll of the CDC, WHO, Etc. AND PHARMA.
A POX ON ALL THIER HOUSES! :mad:
"I'm a believer in vaccinations, kind off, sort of, maybe, losing faith, was once upon a time." - I couldn't agree more! I feel exactly the same way.

Throughout the decades, with many, many relocations and moves, I couldn't tell you where any of my diplomas are. Oddly enough, however, I do have my original birth certificate, baptismal certificate, the Social Security card my parents got for me, and my childhood shot records.

The difference between the vaccinations my children were forced to take versus what I took as a child is breathtaking. I am certainly no vaccinologist, but I do have an autistic son. And I don't mean "on the spectrum." He doesn't talk, he will require lifelong care, and I cannot even hug him. Hell, he wasn't even housebroken until he was around 11. We're taking full on autism.

Until he was about 3 years old, he was a happy little guy that seemed to be maturing in line with normalcy. Then one day, it literally was like someone flipped a light switch. BANG, his life became what it is to the very day. He is now 27 years old. His siblings are perfectly normal outside of the trauma they endured growing up with their brother.

People say the only reason so many autistic children exist today is because it is over diagnosed. I disagree with fervor. Nobody, including the experts and specialists can agree on the root cause. Environment, nature / nurture, vaccinations, predisposition, yada, yada, yada..... I've heard it all. A world renowned psychiatrist at the Stewart and Lynda Resnick Neuropsychiatric Hospital at UCLA took a personal interest in my son's condition because of the sudden onset of his condition. He approached my wife (prior to our divorce) and I and said he'd personally treat my son if we allowed him to publish the results of his treatment protocol. If it wasn't for this particular doctor, I sincerely believe progress he made with my son wouldn't have been achieved had we continued down the "pediatrician path" we had originally embarked upon. It amazed me at how many "medical professionals" wanted to push pills at my son.

What I can say is that I am convinced "something" definitely causes, or at the very least, triggers autism. And there just may very well be many different unrelated contributors. I have dealt with some of the very best professionals conducting research in this area. One common theme, that NONE of them will put in writing (yet), is that they suspect vaccinations do somehow play into this. Maybe not the "cause" singularly, and maybe but only one of many contributing factors, that in the perfect storm triggers this affliction. Please note there is a distinct difference between "cause" and "trigger."

My opinion, having dealt with autism first hand, is that anyone that "rules out" anything as being contributory is ignorant. Furthermore, at one point in his childhood, the "doctors" had my poor baby on a cocktail of pills that would choke a horse. I can absolutely say with certainty that there are quacks out there that are on the take from big pharma. The experts cannot yet explain autism. But they do have data and facts and more is being collected through research.

If RFK jr wants to dig deeper into vaccinations, I say go for it. If he wants to take a closer look at food and physical environment, I say go for it. Anyone that with full honesty who wants to get to the root cause has my blessing and full support. Maybe RFK jr is an inept idiot and won't find anything. Maybe he is running down the right path completely by accident. Maybe he isn't an inept idiot and is on to something.

My parting shot is simply a reemphasis of something I said earlier: At this early stage in research, and due to the lack of comprehensive studies thus far, anyone that "rules out" anything as being contributory is ignorant.

 
Model 457
Absolutely spot on. As a kid we got polio, smallpox, rubella and whooping cough. My great grandchildren look like pin cushions. Thats 4, by my count after looking vac schedule it's 22 by 18 months. WOW! Plus, there is a huge difference between being injected with dead polio virus or cow pox than lab made mRNA.
You and yours will be in my prayers and God bless you.
 
Did you miss this part of my post?

“ I’m all for giving folks the opportunity to get vaccinated. And if a government requires them, they should actually be tested for the appropriate amount of time on the appropriate amount of subjects (which should ALL be volunteers).”
No, and hopefully don’t take as overly argumentative that wasn’t intent. I like discussion! I was saying though that there is a noticeable trend after the 70’s when vaccines were implemented that had positive impact on infant mortality. Unfortunately due to mistrust because of some false information by those against vaccinations, to give the opportunity as you say can lead to bad outcomes ,like iron lung. Choosing not to vaccinate for measles has led to deaths this year because people were given the opportunity to vaccinate, and it just sux a bit because those children didn’t have to die.

Also, what is the appropriate amount of time for testing? The covid vaccine for instance was piggyback on years and years of research on conronavirus. Definitely people shouldn’t be Guinea pigs without knowing it, as someone mentioned Tuskegee AL, and if someone has proof that is happening or has happened then that needs to be shown. Can’t just want to believe something though because of confirmation bias and some word salad thrown together that sounds science like.

I think most though are aligned that the roll out of mmr, dpt and those that likely most of us had as kids is probably a good idea and has reduced infant mortality rate.
 
"I'm a believer in vaccinations, kind off, sort of, maybe, losing faith, was once upon a time." - I couldn't agree more! I feel exactly the same way.

Throughout the decades, with many, many relocations and moves, I couldn't tell you where any of my diplomas are. Oddly enough, however, I do have my original birth certificate, baptismal certificate, the Social Security card my parents got for me, and my childhood shot records.

The difference between the vaccinations my children were forced to take versus what I took as a child is breathtaking. I am certainly no vaccinologist, but I do have an autistic son. And I don't mean "on the spectrum." He doesn't talk, he will require lifelong care, and I cannot even hug him. Hell, he wasn't even housebroken until he was around 11. We're taking full on autism.

Until he was about 3 years old, he was a happy little guy that seemed to be maturing in line with normalcy. Then one day, it literally was like someone flipped a light switch. BANG, his life became what it is to the very day. He is now 27 years old. His siblings are perfectly normal outside of the trauma they endured growing up with their brother.

People say the only reason so many autistic children exist today is because it is over diagnosed. I disagree with fervor. Nobody, including the experts and specialists can agree on the root cause. Environment, nature / nurture, vaccinations, predisposition, yada, yada, yada..... I've heard it all. A world renowned psychiatrist at the Stewart and Lynda Resnick Neuropsychiatric Hospital at UCLA took a personal interest in my son's condition because of the sudden onset of his condition. He approached my wife (prior to our divorce) and I and said he'd personally treat my son if we allowed him to publish the results of his treatment protocol. If it wasn't for this particular doctor, I sincerely believe progress he made with my son wouldn't have been achieved had we continued down the "pediatrician path" we had originally embarked upon. It amazed me at how many "medical professionals" wanted to push pills at my son.

What I can say is that I am convinced "something" definitely causes, or at the very least, triggers autism. And there just may very well be many different unrelated contributors. I have dealt with some of the very best professionals conducting research in this area. One common theme, that NONE of them will put in writing (yet), is that they suspect vaccinations do somehow play into this. Maybe not the "cause" singularly, and maybe but only one of many contributing factors, that in the perfect storm triggers this affliction. Please note there is a distinct difference between "cause" and "trigger."

My opinion, having dealt with autism first hand, is that anyone that "rules out" anything as being contributory is ignorant. Furthermore, at one point in his childhood, the "doctors" had my poor baby on a cocktail of pills that would choke a horse. I can absolutely say with certainty that there are quacks out there that are on the take from big pharma. The experts cannot yet explain autism. But they do have data and facts and more is being collected through research.

If RFK jr wants to dig deeper into vaccinations, I say go for it. If he wants to take a closer look at food and physical environment, I say go for it. Anyone that with full honesty who wants to get to the root cause has my blessing and full support. Maybe RFK jr is an inept idiot and won't find anything. Maybe he is running down the right path completely by accident. Maybe he isn't an inept idiot and is on to something.

My parting shot is simply a reemphasis of something I said earlier: At this early stage in research, and due to the lack of comprehensive studies thus far, anyone that "rules out" anything as being contributory is ignorant.

Research should always continue until you have an absolute understanding, which in something this complex may not be for another 1000 years. Data analysis is important and i don’t think it’s over diagnosed, i think the definition has broadened and detection has gotten better. Think i said this before but there was a boom in breast cancer in 70’s, no it wasn’t more women suddenly contracting the disease, but mammograms became more standard, and women seeking early detection. With the increased diagnosis capabilities came increased detection.

Your sons is a very extraordinary case and that must have been very difficult but it sounds as though you were able to get him a program that helped and that is fantastic. Probably difficult times but your son certainly had some great parents.

I don’t know if there is a cause, can only say what current data suggests and that’s still a work in progress. If it’s going to be labeled as a cause, it has to be able to be isolated (direct causation) and not subject to third variable. I can subscribe to that there isn’t a cause, it’s just a better understanding. To say it wasn’t around years ago is just silly, because we all know there were people that were different (that was me) but just labeled weird or difficult. I grew up during the time of everyone has adhd, and think that’s why my autism was missed. It’s easier to medicate someone to calm them down than to understand them.
 
Research should always continue until you have an absolute understanding, which in something this complex may not be for another 1000 years. Data analysis is important and i don’t think it’s over diagnosed, i think the definition has broadened and detection has gotten better. Think i said this before but there was a boom in breast cancer in 70’s, no it wasn’t more women suddenly contracting the disease, but mammograms became more standard, and women seeking early detection. With the increased diagnosis capabilities came increased detection.

Your sons is a very extraordinary case and that must have been very difficult but it sounds as though you were able to get him a program that helped and that is fantastic. Probably difficult times but your son certainly had some great parents.

I don’t know if there is a cause, can only say what current data suggests and that’s still a work in progress. If it’s going to be labeled as a cause, it has to be able to be isolated (direct causation) and not subject to third variable. I can subscribe to that there isn’t a cause, it’s just a better understanding. To say it wasn’t around years ago is just silly, because we all know there were people that were different (that was me) but just labeled weird or difficult. I grew up during the time of everyone has adhd, and think that’s why my autism was missed. It’s easier to medicate someone to calm them down than to understand them.
I wholly agree about ADHD, and will toss in bipolar disorder along with a myriad of other anxiety disorders. These were largely misunderstood and misclassified; most often as "weird" or "difficult" as you stated.

However, autism, and the ever increasing number of those afflicted by autism is a totally different story. A child that cannot speak, wears a diaper at 10 years old, and self destructs if touched was never interchanged with a "difficult" child that more likely was suffering from ADHD.
 
I wholly agree about ADHD, and will toss in bipolar disorder along with a myriad of other anxiety disorders. These were largely misunderstood and misclassified; most often as "weird" or "difficult" as you stated.

However, autism, and the ever increasing number of those afflicted by autism is a totally different story. A child that cannot speak, wears a diaper at 10 years old, and self destructs if touched was never interchanged with a "difficult" child that more likely was suffering from ADHD.
Absolutely! Is it those on the more extreme end of the spectrum that is on the rise, or is it those like me that struggle but are able to mask? That was more of pondering, I genuinely don’t know.

Much like my diabetes diagnosis and how things made sense to the why, after my autism diagnosis (as an adult) kinda stopped feeling like i was wrong, and instead just different.

Thanks for good discussion 457!
 
Absolutely! Is it those on the more extreme end of the spectrum that is on the rise, or is it those like me that struggle but are able to mask? That was more of pondering, I genuinely don’t know.

Much like my diabetes diagnosis and how things made sense to the why, after my autism diagnosis (as an adult) kinda stopped feeling like i was wrong, and instead just different.

Thanks for good discussion 457!
Likewise.
 
Im curious - what happened? Seriously interested (as a medical professional), not trolling.
It was a two part shot, really don't know why i took it as i had covid about a year before. think i did it to get my wife to get it. the jab didn't bother her none but the first one made my left arm go completely numb and heart rate went through the roof for about an hour. thought i was having a heart attack, the second one made my whole left side, arm, leg and body go numb and even worse on the heart rate. lasted for about three hours. was just fixin to check into ER when it started easing up. i said nope, never again. i'm not against any vaccinations. i usually get a flu shot every year. sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. but that covid vaccine didn't work. guy across the street got it back then and two boosters and still got covid twice.
 
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