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HCQ - a possible $20 cure. Should the FDA get out of the way?

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Peglegjoe

Peglegjoe

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Some VERY interesting evidence here...and some GOOD numbers.

I say mass-produce the pills and mail them out with the stimulus checks. This article has enough evidence to convince me - we have to do SOMETHING here.

spectator.org

The $20 Solution to Coronavirus: ‘Anecdotal Evidence’ Is a Life-Saver - The American Spectator | USA News and PoliticsThe American Spectator | USA News and Politics

Over the weekend, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) issued an emergency authorization for the use of hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) and chloroquine (CQ) to treat hospitalized COVID-19 patients. Simultaneously, the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) announced that Sandoz has donated...
spectator.org spectator.org
 
No, there isn’t any good evidence—listen to Fauci on this, not some random schmuck on the internet.

If I sound a bit...perturbed...about this, it’s because I’m on HCQ for RA; and all of a sudden, because idiots are getting it prescribed with NO SOLID PROOF it works, supplies are getting scarce, and I may not be able to refill my prescription when it runs out...which means PAIN.

Until there’s actual proof that it’s effective, save it for the people who actually NEED it.
 
I understand your view. However, if there are cases where it has helped, and as mentioned in the article there are entire REGIONS that are unaffected by the virus due to widespread HCQ usage, I think we at least owe it to the population to try it, and GET that "proof that its effective".

Can't get proof, without trying it first.

That goes for ANY potential fixes/cures/medications for this thing. We need to try them ALL, and we need to do it without red tape. This thing is moving at lightning speed, and we need to move at the same speed if we're going to keep up or get ahead of it. I think more than HCQ specifically, the bigger issue is that we need the FDA to step back and allow some of these "shoot from the hip" measures to be tried, without all the red tape and delays.

The disease isn't waiting.

Neither should the cure.
 
Peglegjoe said:
I understand your view. However, if there are cases where it has helped, and as mentioned in the article there are entire REGIONS that are unaffected by the virus due to widespread HCQ usage, I think we at least owe it to the population to try it, and GET that "proof that its effective".

Can't get proof, without trying it first.

That goes for ANY potential fixes/cures/medications for this thing. We need to try them ALL, and we need to do it without red tape. This thing is moving at lightning speed, and we need to move at the same speed if we're going to keep up or get ahead of it. I think more than HCQ specifically, the bigger issue is that we need the FDA to step back and allow some of these "shoot from the hip" measures to be tried, without all the red tape and delays.

The disease isn't waiting.

Neither should the cure.
Click to expand...

You try it in limited tests, not by prescribing it willy-nilly.

Let alone there are some potentially nasty side effects (do you like your liver? How about your eyesight?).
 
Understood. And in a normal circumstance I agree that limited, controlled testing is the right way. Currently? This is war, even though the enemy isn't humans from another country or ideology. We can't wait. We need to TRY, we need to INNOVATE and we need to DOCUMENT, and we need to do it QUICKLY. Regardless of what the attempted treatment is. As a rule, some of the treatments won't help...some might...some will. But inaction? Will result in zero people being helped. Red tape cures nobody.

Helping some is better than none.

And with documentation, the help can be studied, analyzed, and improved. Quickly.

Apparently the side effects are tolerable, compared to the problem it's curing. Yes? I presume since you take it, you prefer the potential side effects, to the pain? I'm willing to bet they'd be preferable to death, as well...I know if I had it, and was on death's door...try me. I'll be a guinea pig, especially if the outlook for inaction is that bleak.

I've been dead. Large portions of my body have been rebuilt. Equally large portions do not function like they should, and never will again. I've spent the better part of a year learning to walk again. I cannot run. Every step I take, hurts. But...pain means I'm walking, which is infinitely preferable to the alternative of life in a wheelchair. Would I prefer no pain? Sure. But if a little pain means I can still walk, and function, and lead a relatively normal life?

I'll take it.

And I suspect anyone on a ventilator, with COVID-19, will be happy with any lifeline that is offered to them as well. "Tested", or not.
 
Except, again, there is no proof...correlation does not prove causation.

And you will be definitely harming others who rely on it for proven uses by wiping out stocks.

I risk the side effects because I KNOW it works, because it has years of PROVEN results. What happens when it’s shown...oops, it’s NOT effective, guess all you folks that suffered side effects were guinea pigs, and got C19 anyway...oh well, too bad for you!
 
HansGruber said:
Except, again, there is no proof...correlation does not prove causation.

And you will be definitely harming others who rely on it for proven uses by wiping out stocks.

I risk the side effects because I KNOW it works, because it has years of PROVEN results. What happens when it’s shown...oops, it’s NOT effective, guess all you folks that suffered side effects were guinea pigs, and got C19 anyway...oh well, too bad for you!
Click to expand...

my wife is a pharmacist, she checked the warehouse suppliers a couple weeks ago and they were already out. Most Insurances are letting you get your scrips early.....if you can afford it go get it while you can. She has received restocks but supplies are limited. On Inshurance they are not paying for it unless you have a previous history of taking it. And Walgreens will not fill excessive quantity prescriptions even for cash.

Those anecdotes of it working seem to be really promising. The French got the basis from the Chinese and both those countries are having success with it. New York is going to be the largest test trial. If the drug did not show promise they would not be expanding testing and loosening prescribing rules. Off label use of drugs happens all the time, most drugs have off label uses.
 
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xdman said:
my wife is a pharmacist, she checked the warehouse suppliers a couple weeks ago and they were already out. Most Insurances are letting you get your scrips early.....if you can afford it go get it while you can. She has received restocks but supplies are limited. On Inshurance they are not paying for it unless you have a previous history of taking it. And Walgreens will not fill excessive quantity prescriptions even for cash.

Those anecdotes of it working seem to be really promising. The French got the basis from the Chinese and both those countries are having success with it. New York is going to be the largest test trial. If the drug did not show promise they would not be expanding testing and loosening prescribing rules. Off label use of drugs happens all the time, most drugs have off label uses.
Click to expand...

Just read the U of MN is doing a proper double blind test, should be on about 1500 subjects.

I’ll wait to see the results of that...all else is speculation, nothing better.
 
I guess this is the point I’m trying to make:

By prescribing this med blindly, as is happening, you are DEFINITELY harming people who depend on it just to be able to function, do their jobs, take care of their families, because it MAYBE (there is zero proof, only uses where it “possibly” helped) prevents/mitigates C19.

Until proved otherwise—I’m on the side of preventing the definitely over preventing the maybe.
 
Peglegjoe said:
Not to belittle your situation, but if it comes to it I suspect we may have a magnitude debate coming.

Help aches and pains?

Or prevent death?

Supply will have to adjust, but I suspect I know where resources will be concentrated at first...
Click to expand...
You are, in fact, completely belittling it by calling it “aches and pains”. Not being able to raise an arm because there’s liquid fire in your shoulder...that’s what it feels like. The only pain relievers that are effective mean I can’t drive, or go to work.

Research lupus and get back to me if you think it’s just “aches and pains”.

If it’s proved—PROVED—to be effective, it’s another story. I’ll deal with that.

Until then, you are, in fact, harming people by selfishly gambling that it might work without any confirmed proof.

And that’s the thing—all of these assumptions on your part is that it works...if it doesn’t, it’s not like these prescriptions can be returned, and given to people who are actually suffering.

Just found out some pharmacists in my area aren’t giving it out anymore to anyone who hasn’t had a previous prescription or a confirmed diagnosis from a rheumatologist...good.
 
HansGruber said:
Just found out some pharmacists in my area aren’t giving it out anymore to anyone who hasn’t had a previous prescription or a confirmed diagnosis from a rheumatologist...good.
Click to expand...
Hans Bubby, I told you that. And the insurance companies are not paying for it unless you had a previous prescription. But still fill up if you can. This stuff is not going to go away. Get your self a 90 day supply minimum.

Also China just published a randomized blind study, so the biggest take away was the basically 30 % improvement with pneumonia Over no drug.
29464A9F-E674-40F9-B390-86773383B802.jpeg
 
xdman said:
Hans Bubby, I told you that. And the insurance companies are not paying for it unless you had a previous prescription. But still fill up if you can. This stuff is not going to go away. Get your self a 90 day supply minimum.

Also China just published a randomized blind study, so the biggest take away was the basically 30 % improvement with pneumonia Over no drug.
View attachment 4036
Click to expand...

I love how all of a sudden, we trust the Chinese...

Tell me—if the data went the other way, would you trust it just as much?
 
Peglegjoe said:
How about from New Jersey?

Patients all heavily-biased towards complications - diabetic, pre-diabetic, extremely obese - and zero patients who required respirators or intibation.

www.thegatewaypundit.com

"This is the Beginning of the End of the Pandemic" - Dr. Stephen Smith Announces Hydroxy-Choloroquine Study that is "Game Changer" in Battle Against Coronavirus (VIDEO) | The Gateway Pundit | by Jim Hoft

Infectious Disease Specialist Dr.
www.thegatewaypundit.com www.thegatewaypundit.com
Click to expand...

I’m not considering bloggers as reliable sources, either way.
 
New York Times:
www.nytimes.com

Malaria Drug Helps Virus Patients Improve, in Small Study (Published 2020)

A group of moderately ill people were given hydroxychloroquine, which appeared to ease their symptoms quickly, but more research is needed.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

Detroit Metro Times:
www.metrotimes.com

Gov. Whitmer reverses course on coronavirus drugs, is now asking feds for hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine

Gov. Gretchen Whitmer drew fire from some on the right after the Michigan Department of Licensing and Regulatory Affairs (LARA) sent a letter last week...
www.metrotimes.com www.metrotimes.com

NY Post:
nypost.com

Anti-malaria drug helps speed up recovery of coronavirus patients: study

The antimalarial drug hydroxychloroquine has shown promise in treating the coronavirus – helping to speed up the recovery of a small number of patients suffering a mild form of the illness, accordi…
nypost.com nypost.com

TCPalm (USA Today):
www.tcpalm.com

Coronavirus: Can hydroxychloroquine help with COVID-19 illness? Vero Beach patient says so | Reisman

John McConnell, former ABC Radio senior vice president, recovering at his Vero Beach home after New York trip and multi-week battle with coronavirus.
www.tcpalm.com

CBS Detroit:
detroit.cbslocal.com

France Sanctions Drug After Nearly All Patients Recover COVID-19

According to a report from The Daily Wire, the French government has officially sanctioned the drug chloroquine for use on COVID-19 patients.
detroit.cbslocal.com detroit.cbslocal.com

Michigan Radio:
www.michiganradio.org

Henry Ford uses hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19 symptoms, says benefits outweigh risks

Henry Ford Health System says it’s been using the drug hydroxychloroquine to treat severe cases of COVID-19 in hospitalized patients. Hydroxychloroquine…
www.michiganradio.org www.michiganradio.org
 
Which, produce results.

You have to start somewhere.

I'm perplexed why a potential cure for this massive problem, causes you so much distress. Do you want COVID to win? Do you want us (humans, the USA, whoever) to simply not even try to find a solution?
 
Peglegjoe said:
Which, produce results.

You have to start somewhere.

I'm perplexed why a potential cure for this massive problem, causes you so much distress. Do you want COVID to win? Do you want us (humans, the USA, whoever) to simply not even try to find a solution?
Click to expand...

Yes, try and find a solution.

But until you have actual proof, don’t call it a cure.

I am not in favor of how it is currently being handled, with it being prescribed for people without symptoms, and how people with legitimate need for it can’t get the drug for those reasons.

Again-your entire position is based on the assumption that it works. Mine is based on doing the least amount of harm to people who have already proven need of it.

As I said, give me actual proof, and my position changes.
 
My 78 year old mom is on it. I told her several weeks ago to get a refill and she did.

I’m all for aggressive, fast-paced studies, but taking it from people who need it and it’s proven to treat diseases for and handing it to thousands of people hoping it works is not a logical protocol. It’s sad how this virus has exposed so many cracks in our system.
 
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