cowboy9470
Alpha
Seems like too many people believe everything they see on TV. Like the hero should have shot the gun out of the bad guy’s hands so he could kneel down with his hands behind his head and wait peacefully for the authorities.
Head Shot at 50 feet in 6 seconds
- Thread starter MsMelissa
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MsMelissa
Operator
Anyone who complains about what he did to stop the shooter is an idiot. His coolness under pressure, reaction time and accuracy saved untold lives and minimized loss of life.
sandy4cbhb
Alpha
There were people in the way of a body shot. So then would you have a good guy with a gun wait until he could wound the shooter while he's shooting more parishioners? And how many dead parishioners would you need before you finally shot the shooter, Jessica? Take the emotion out of the equation. The shooter wanted to kill as many people as he could and he needed to be stopped as quickly as possible. That's exactly what happened.
BET7
Ronin
Agreed. I have an ankle IFAK (Individual First Aid Kit), that I wear to the range. I'm not an EMT but bought some videos from USCCA (Elite member), that document how to treat gunshot wounds. I'm probably guilt of not wearing it enough especially out and about while carrying. The kit isn't as complete as a trauma bag, but contains enough space for 2 tourniquets, quikclot, compression bandage, clothes cutting tool, and flat compressed gauze. I bought it from an outfit in Arizona after watching one of Rob Pinkus PDN videos on different IFAK's.
BET7
Ronin
I was also impressed that the rest of the church's Security CCW holders didn't start shooting numerous rounds at the suspect. From my understanding, several had drawn, but after seeing the threat neutralized, refrained from firing. Most if not all on this board realize what MSM (Main Street Media) would have reported if multiple shots had been fired (not that I think it would have been bad if it was prudent). Just as another poster wrote, MSM would have twisted the story line of a wild west shoot out with out of control gun slingers patrolling the church. As it turns out, this story isn't even being covered as much as if it would have been if the suspect killed more parishioners. Then we'd be hearing about the need for more gun control and the continued unconstitutional attempts to take our God given 2nd admendment rights from us. Truly sad.
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Epeeist
Elite
My range group ended up doing this as a drill today. At 50 feet when the buzzer sounds, draw and fire your carry gun to a head target in under 6 seconds, one shot. One of the ladies in the group put up the best time at 2.37! A lot of very good shooters in the group struggled with it. Its a situation worth training for.
I read somewhere that the average time from holster to target is 2.3 seconds. This time is also with extensive training and the pistol with one in chamber. The average time with one not in chamber is 3.7 seconds again with good training.
Epeeist
Elite
Most of us were in the mid to high 2 seconds (2.41 for me), with a couple folks taking their time and drifting into the high 3's, but these are all competitive shooters, so keep that in mind. What surprised me was the number of people who rushed the first shot and missed high, and it was high every single time someone missed. Its almost like its a good idea to shoot for the body or something.
Training with similar drills over many years, one that stuck was a draw and shoot to the pelvis it stopped the overtravel momentum, it was supposed to be great for to close for comfort perps and was supposed to fold the person in half and shock the skeletal system. We used to use a front kick to the point of the hip bone, it worked well and caused only bruising. So... the phrase was pull the trigger as soon as your muzzle covers meat. It shaved off a small amount of time, but we were using triple threat holsters, the slowest draw on the planet. The best we ever got was three seconds on average.
Guessing an Epeeist as someone who uses an Epee, as in the sword (lack of better description) used in the sport of Fencing?
I wanted to revisit this thread in light of the ongoing "targets" thread:
www.thearmorylife.com
The following was posted by Claude Werner on his FB page on December 30th, shortly after the shooting
To which Tamara Keel made this very astute follow-up:
And that's not even a moving target - heads are awfully hard to shoot at, and the geometry of a close-range encounter doesn't do the shooter any favors, either.
It's a heck of a shot under duress, especially if Mr. Wilson launched that .357-Sig in DA.
And what he's done makes me want to strive for better.
I think that Dunning-Kruger gets us all from time to time. I certainly was served a big piece of humble pie in the winter of 2014 when I realized that I could not make a 20-yard head-shot on-demand. I also think that a lot of us "don't know what we don't know" - until just very recently, I it wasn't even on the radar of my possibilities that a sub-second draw-to-first-hit at 10+ yards to the high-center-chest oval on an OPOTA target was possible not only from concealment (closed front garment), but at *retention*....or that we should be thinking about "retention" in the 7 to 10-yard sense.
I really want to strive to do better, and to help my fellow shooters strive to do better, too:
www.xdtalk.com
www.xdtalk.com
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^ The above actually came from a post I made on the XDTalk Forums, in the week after Mr. Wilson's heroic actions.
I said at that time that "I know what my shot timer and I are going to be playing, next time I'm at the range."
Guess what I did at the range with my daughter, on the day she turned 14?
Targets
When you go to the range, what kind of targets do you take to use, unless your range supplies them. My range I belong to supplies the metal swingers on the handgun range, I also bring my paper targets, on the rifle, I bring mostly paper targets.
www.thearmorylife.com
The following was posted by Claude Werner on his FB page on December 30th, shortly after the shooting
To which Tamara Keel made this very astute follow-up:
Tamara Keel said:
And that's not even a moving target - heads are awfully hard to shoot at, and the geometry of a close-range encounter doesn't do the shooter any favors, either.
It's a heck of a shot under duress, especially if Mr. Wilson launched that .357-Sig in DA.
And what he's done makes me want to strive for better.
I think that Dunning-Kruger gets us all from time to time. I certainly was served a big piece of humble pie in the winter of 2014 when I realized that I could not make a 20-yard head-shot on-demand. I also think that a lot of us "don't know what we don't know" - until just very recently, I it wasn't even on the radar of my possibilities that a sub-second draw-to-first-hit at 10+ yards to the high-center-chest oval on an OPOTA target was possible not only from concealment (closed front garment), but at *retention*....or that we should be thinking about "retention" in the 7 to 10-yard sense.
I really want to strive to do better, and to help my fellow shooters strive to do better, too:
Why Competition and "Bullseye" Shooting Will...
To aim or protect yourself...
So, with all the photos out there on the forum and the really nice bullseye shooting with no peper left...I just wonder how much time and care is placed on each shot? For defensive carry, combat situations, etc - are we hitting bullseyes or simply stopping a threat? Perhaps a bullseye should...
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^ The above actually came from a post I made on the XDTalk Forums, in the week after Mr. Wilson's heroic actions.
I said at that time that "I know what my shot timer and I are going to be playing, next time I'm at the range."
Guess what I did at the range with my daughter, on the day she turned 14?
RandomHero
Custom
The man that took out the shooter was a retired FBI agent if my information is correct. No reason to Monday morning quarterback the scenario.
A peacemaker stopped the face of evil. Doesn't matter how he accomplished it. The peacemaker saved lives and deserves the respect that he is due for doing so.
For the shooter.... If you play stupid games, you win stupid prizes. That's the consequence for his actions.
A peacemaker stopped the face of evil. Doesn't matter how he accomplished it. The peacemaker saved lives and deserves the respect that he is due for doing so.
For the shooter.... If you play stupid games, you win stupid prizes. That's the consequence for his actions.