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Hellcat trigger debacle

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SoNic

Elite
So I got some 300-400 rounds trough my new Hellcat, and I only now saw the outrage about the trigger binding in certain conditions. OK, open minded here...
Watching the YT videos I was curious why some people have that issue and some don't. I managed to grab a screenshoot of the trigger from one of the videos and then took a picture of mine.
Well... they are different! The angle is different, and my trigger "escapes" that binding with a bit of effort and a "click". The old angle it was absolutely not gonna allow that. Pictures and link to the video that basically "fixes" this issue by filing that corner.

My trigger angle is less pronounced, but the plastic edge was still a bit rough, "catching" a bit too much for my pleasure. The middle of it had a tiny ridge left from molding - almost you can see it in my pic.
I took a small exacto knife blade and scraped a bit the ridge. Not cut, scrape, like you would scrape with a nail. Just a microscopic bit... and the catch is not there anymore.


Old trigger blade angle (see tip of his finger) was about 85-90 degrees:
Old trigger.jpg


New trigger blade angle is about 110-120 degrees:
New trigger.jpg
 
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jumpinjoe

Professional
Two entirely different triggers. Look at the difference in (what I assume is) the return spring retainer. Don't know when SA might have redesigned the trigger to this effect, but mine (Hellcat) is just over a year old and has the trigger in the top picture. Yours, apparently a newer version, must be the redesign to address the 'lock-up' issue. ???

Maybe someone in the know can chime in and set us straight. (y) (y) (y)
 

SoNic

Elite
The video was posted in May 2020, I bought mine in February 2021.

The flat "paddle" in the middle of trigger is what got changed.

I took a snapshot of the Hellcat RDP from SA website and it looks like mine:

rdp.png
 
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jumpinjoe

Professional
Yeh, that sounds right since mine is like the one from the 2020 video and was bought in Jan of 2020 IIRC. From this it appears then that SA saw the 'lock up' issue as a real issue.

I'm not sure I'd want to modify or change mine though since it is in a sense a safer (harder to make an unintentional discharge) situation. Just this man's opinion. (y) (y) (y)
 
So, looking at these pictures and having this issue come up again, I took a closer look at mine. I bought in July of 2020. Here’s what I discovered. I can make this happen if I really try. But there’s a caveat to that. What I found is that if I push hard, directly sideways, I can make it catch. Here’s the caveat. What’s actually happening is that while I’m pushing to the side, I’m also pulling the trigger back slightly. So what’s going on is that the trigger is being pulled and the trigger safety is not depressed all the way. Hope that makes sense. So what’s really going on is that the trigger safety is doing it’s job. It’s not allowing the trigger to be pulled without the safety being depressed all the way.
 

SoNic

Elite
So what’s going on is that the trigger is being pulled and the trigger safety is not depressed all the way.
What people did argue is that, while you keep pressed laterally and back on the main trigger, if you later press the middle blade (like you would roll the finger in), it would not slide back in, the trigger remains locked. No matter what force you apply.
Mine takes a bit more pressure, makes a "click" and releases.

That argument is for panic situations, when somebody (with less training, less muscle memory) could pull from holster with an incorrect grip, not for relaxed range day.
 
What people did argue is that, while you keep pressed laterally and back on the main trigger, if you later press the middle blade (like you would roll the finger in), it would not slide back in, the trigger remains locked. No matter what force you apply.
Mine takes a bit more pressure, makes a "click" and releases.

That argument is for panic situations, when somebody (with less training, less muscle memory) could pull from holster with an incorrect grip, not for relaxed range day.
I've never heard it described that way...
 

Peglegjoe

Professional
Founding Member
Still just curious... Why did SA change the trigger in the first place if there were no issues with it?
Simple.

It's called "product improvement".

I have an original Hellcat, with an unmodified original trigger. Have run the gun for nearly 9 months with zero failures or issues. Some people, their finger position causes problems; mine, does not.

You have noticed, we no longer drive Model A Fords, yes? That's not because there were "issues" with Model A's...it's because we, as a people, have a habit of improving products as a natural part of business.
 

BCAD

Alpha
Simple.

It's called "product improvement".

I have an original Hellcat, with an unmodified original trigger. Have run the gun for nearly 9 months with zero failures or issues. Some people, their finger position causes problems; mine, does not.

You have noticed, we no longer drive Model A Fords, yes? That's not because there were "issues" with Model A's...it's because we, as a people, have a habit of improving products as a natural part of business.
Just saying, what is the product "improvement" improving? Or is it quietly fixing a problem? If the improved trigger still binds up with sidepull on it, then I'll accept that it is NOT quietly fixing the locking trigger issue. If it no longer locks up, however, then the old questions, I think may still be valid.
 

Peglegjoe

Professional
Founding Member
Just saying, what is the product "improvement" improving? Or is it quietly fixing a problem? If the improved trigger still binds up with sidepull on it, then I'll accept that it is NOT quietly fixing the locking trigger issue. If it no longer locks up, however, then the old questions, I think may still be valid.
So...my original trigger does not lock up.

What's broken?

I'm not the only one who's not having problems with the original trigger...a "problem" would be EVERY original trigger.
 
So...my original trigger does not lock up.

What's broken?

I'm not the only one who's not having problems with the original trigger...a "problem" would be EVERY original trigger.
Me neither. I've heard the argument that lateral pressure will cause the trigger not to pull, which for me only happens when I'm applying lateral pressure, which cause me to pull the trigger before the blade is fully depressed, as I showed in my video earlier. But I've never heard or seen the argument that if the blade sticks, it remains stuck for the next trigger pull. I don't know where that came from. My trigger has been fine...
 

jumpinjoe

Professional
Earlier I called this trigger thing an "issue" that SA had addressed, and not a 'problem'. I agree with Peglegjoe and others who don't necessarily see it as a problem since it doesn't involve every Hellcat shooter. It would appear the new trigger is more an improvement than a 'fix' for any problem.

While certainly it can be described as a 'problem' for some users, it's not a problem with the design or manufacture of the product. If it affected every shooter then yes, it would/should be considered a product defect or bad design or any number of things, but that's not what we see here.

Just this man's opinion.
 

SoNic

Elite
it remains stuck for the next trigger pull.
Nobody said that.
Is that once the trigger refused to work (correctly, because the blade was not depressed), you can't just roll the finger to depress the blade to fire. At that point, you need to completely release the trigger to be able to fire.
For some that's a problem and SA seem to fixed it in 2021.
Mine doesn't do that anymore, if I press harder on that blade, blocked trigger will "escape" and fire...

I didn't know that that could be an issue, because I never hit that trigger that weird... but I see why say that it can happen in a stressful situation, with Adrenalin running.

A "problem" would be universal, not occasional.
It's a problem if it could be repeatedly made to happen (in certain conditions).
Those conditions can happen or not to individuals, it really doesn't matter.

Example: You might never drop your gun, you're that good. But if the mechanism that prevents it to fire when dropped would not work, then it's a problem.

There are many videos about this... problem or issue, I don't know what it is.
But this was more than just one random person. And the fixes were very similar with what SA did in the end:
 
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Peglegjoe

Professional
Founding Member
I don't understand why this is a debate.

A "problem" is something that happens every time, all the time.

Something that happens to SOME of the people, SOME of the time...is room for improvement. Whether on the part of the people using the item, or on the part of the people making the item, is a coin toss.

The people making the item in this case, have chosen to improve the design, to try and eliminate the possibility of this happening to some of the people, some of the time. They have improved it, in an effort to make sure it happens to none of the people, in the future.

But again - I don't see the point of the debate. If you think there was a "problem" with the trigger...smile and say thank you, SA has fixed it for you.
 
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