Yep, ever since we got Uncle Joe…..The assault on the 2A is clearly picking up speed over the last 16 months.
Just remember you have no obligation to help law enforcement investigate you.
They don’t. Unless they go to the store and pull the 4473. They only know if it’s a handgun, long gun or other.people, i have to admit, i am confused.
when i buy a gun, or more than 1 at one time, i fill out the form 4473..
then since i have a CCW, they no longer require me to fill out my state's form.
a "simple" phone call to check on my background, and it's a done deal..
only AFTER i get approved for a purchase, does the salesman write down the gun, make, model, serial number and caliber, never BEFORE that phone call to NCIC...
so, then, how would the ATF know what i bought, if they do not have that information, before hand?
in fact, so many times, when i went to buy 1 gun, then got the approval, i "sometimes" then buy another gun, since i have been approved with that call....
so this confuses me.
do some states when they call in NCIC, also at the same time, report the serial numbers during that call..????
thanks in advance
well, i don't know...i was there...the salesman made a phone call, came back and said i was good to go.4473's get turned in to the ATF from any FFL dealer who goes out of business or otherwise stops dealing in firearms and gives up/loses their FFL. On that 4473 is everything about you and what you purchased. If you think the ATF doesn't have a database of this, you are 100% delusional.
@Old_Me - a proceed on a NICS check is only good for that purchase and any items listed on that 4473 when that NICS check was conducted. You can't go "OH I passed my check, let me add some more items". Anything additional would require another background check. Also, that sucks that you have a CCW and they still call the FBI for a check on you lol. And do businesses actually still call in for background checks? good lord it's 2022.
Yup, I've bought guns after I was approved for a BGC on an initial purchase. Here in Pennsylvania they just add it to the 4473 form. My buddy who was the Gun counter manager told me I could continue to add guns to the form since I was already approved. The only caveat was that I couldn't leave the store, else if I did, I'd need to go through another background check if I returned to buy again.well, i don't know...i was there...the salesman made a phone call, came back and said i was good to go.
i then decided on another gun, as well as the first one i picked out........since i had passed the phone call check.
so 2 guns i bought.....
in fact, i was told, i could buy the entire store, since i passed the phone call..
so you tell me...........what's up...???????
did he call the NICS, or did he call the police dept..??
it was AFTER i passed the phone call, he jotted down the serial number, model, brand, and caliber....
not before........
you tell me.....
(he either phone called, or went online, how da heck would i know exactly how they communicate????)
i could care less, i passed, and i took home 2 guns and there was no second background check.......
When my buddy was working at the LGS (he's since left unfortunately), the ATF was tracking individuals suspected of making straw purchases at two of their stores. Each time, the stores would report to the ATF "that person was in here again today and bought ###, of xyz guns"). The ATF would just tell them to keep on selling them guns. One time I was there and a suspected person was there buying guns. My buddy pointed the person out and said "that's one of them". I told him I couldn't believe that the AFT wasn't doing anything, especially with more and more shootings going on in surrounding towns, and in Philadelphia where several of these suspect buyers were from and where most of the guns were probably being sold. I told/asked him "how many of these guns could possibly have been used in shootings and killings and the ATF is doing nothing (but tracking)?" He agreed and said it's just like the "Fast and Furious" deal the Government ran in Mexico. A few days later both LGSs told the ATF, "under good conscience, we can no longer sell to those suspected persons". Whether any action against those persons was taken by the ATF afterwards, is unknown to that FFL.My guess on this, somebody must have tipped off the ATF, either the gun shop, salesperson at the shop, or someone who knew he purchased several guns, sounds to hinky to me
ok, all i know is, that here, the salesman added another purchase to the 4473 form, while i was there...now...if they have to fill out another form after i leave..??? i have no idea..Yup, I've bought guns after I was approved for a BGC on an initial purchase. Here in Pennsylvania they just add it to the 4473 form. My buddy who was the Gun counter manager told me I could continue to add guns to the form since I was already approved. The only caveat was that I couldn't leave the store, else if I did, I'd need to go through another background check if I returned to buy again.
Now for multiple firearms bought within a certain time frame (like at one time still in the LGS), the ATF requires the FFL to fill out other forms recording multiple purchases on firearms. I've done this multiple times, with probably 4-5 max firearms bought being at one time (BTW: the ATF has never contacted me on any of my purchases). I'll link some ATF information and ATF PDF forms on this subject below:
ATF instructions for FFL on multiple firearm sales. Note the box for more questions and answers which then link to other instructions/forms:
Reporting Multiple Firearms Sales | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
The Gun Control Act (GCA) of 1968 requires federal firearms licensees (FFLs) to send a report to ATF when there is a sale of multiple firearms to the same purchaser within a certain time period. ATF uses the information gathered from multiple sales transactions to investigate possible firearms...www.atf.gov
Form 3310.4 - Multiple sales of pistols and revolvers:
Form 3310.12 - Multiple sales of certain types of rifles (Note: article states this is for those States that reside on the Mexican Border. Not sure if it's been changed to include more States or not since):
You can see the information the FFL has to supply to the ATF (your name, residence, SN's of firearms purchased, etc). I've been told by sales people at different LGS and Gun Shows that these forms need to be filled out if buying 2 or more guns and one told me 3 or more guns (so I'm not really sure of the number, but I'd venture to think 2 or more knowing our ATF).
Sometimes for multiple sales of firearms they'll fill it out later (I think they have a few days to submit it). One time, one LGS did it in front of me complaining (not to me), they now have to fill out another form since I bought 3 guns. I told him I bough several guns at one time before and never saw them fill out another form, and he said "they probably did it later after you left". That's how I found out about it, otherwise I'd never had known.ok, all i know is, that here, the salesman added another purchase to the 4473 form, while i was there...now...if they have to fill out another form after i leave..??? i have no idea..
yes, too, once i take one gun, cash ut, THEN decide to buy another while there..??
YES, another 4473 and "phone call" or whatever for the BGC .
well, i don't know...i was there...the salesman made a phone call, came back and said i was good to go.
i then decided on another gun, as well as the first one i picked out........since i had passed the phone call check.
so 2 guns i bought.....
in fact, i was told, i could buy the entire store, since i passed the phone call..
so you tell me...........what's up...???????
did he call the NICS, or did he call the police dept..??
it was AFTER i passed the phone call, he jotted down the serial number, model, brand, and caliber....
not before........
you tell me.....
(he either phone called, or went online, how da heck would i know exactly how they communicate????)
i could care less, i passed, and i took home 2 guns and there was no second background check.......
I (on one visit) put my SA RO Elite, Mrs Tinyman's S&W 380EZ and a 12ga Mossburg 'tactical' shotgun on the 4473. No gummint toads came to see me at the house, mall or post office.
Not according to the ATF. You can add firearms to the 4473 up until the time the original firearm is transferred.If they call NICS, I can't imagine it would be for anything other than a background check lol. Does your state allow your CCW license/permit to exempt you from a NICS check?
As for adding additional firearms AFTER you've received a proceed for that specific 4473/sale, That's 100% illegal and your LGS is without a doubt breaking the law and playing fast and loose with his FFL. The serial numbers for firearms being purchased on that 4473 have to be entered on the form prior to the transaction going to NICS for a response.
Either way, the phone call thing is interesting... IF your state laws allow NICS exemption via a state issued license. (not every state will honor their issued permit as an exemption for NICS).
The 3310's (multiple firearms purchases) forms are run by the FFL At the end of each day typically, one for long guns and one for handguns. They shouldn't have any involvement from you, that's a report the ATF requires FFL's to run so they can keep track of large or otherwise suspicious purchases.
1) they "make a call/or internet connection", i could care less how it is done, i don't ask questions1) If they call NICS, I can't imagine it would be for anything other than a background check lol. Does your state allow your CCW license/permit to exempt you from a NICS check?
2) As for adding additional firearms AFTER you've received a proceed for that specific 4473/sale, That's 100% illegal and your LGS is without a doubt breaking the law and playing fast and loose with his FFL. The serial numbers for firearms being purchased on that 4473 have to be entered on the form prior to the transaction going to NICS for a response.
3) Either way, the phone call thing is interesting... IF your state laws allow NICS exemption via a state issued license. (not every state will honor their issued permit as an exemption for NICS).
4) The 3310's (multiple firearms purchases) forms are run by the FFL At the end of each day typically, one for long guns and one for handguns. They shouldn't have any involvement from you, that's a report the ATF requires FFL's to run so they can keep track of large or otherwise suspicious purchases.