jumpinjoe
Hellcat
Well, there ya are!!!! LOL!
Is liberty safe with Liberty Safe?
- Thread starter Annihilator
- Start date
art imitating life, or life imitating art? tough call. i am about to re-read a brave new world. another one along the same lines of orwell.
huh? slow it down. one more time, please.
Pitdogg2
Professional
Exactly! You cannot change something you do not have access to.
The only way you could access it is if you knew the fundamentals and say worked for the safe company, even then maybe not.
It's a glorified "master key"
Bassbob
Emissary
I’m sure you can buy a replacement E lock. Now whether or not that new E lock comes with a master key stored with the manufacturer I don’t know.
Old_Me
Ronin
yes, true...i worked at several GM dealerships, and as long as there is a VIN number, keys can be cut.
however, to keep things on the "up and up", only dealerships were supposed to do that.
however, once i got into trucking a well qualified locksmithing place, can have factory plates and be an "agent" for that manufacturer. this i know too cuz i was in another state and my ignition key broke, and a "factory authorized" locksmith cut a key for me.
this holds true for locksmiths and being an "authorized auto manufacturing locksmith, as well....
Bassbob
Emissary
That’s a car key, not the key to your most valued possessions or constitutionally protected property. A brick or the end of your pocket knife will get you into any car.
Belt Fed
Hellcat
I bet Alexa looks like Maxine waters.
Old_Me
Ronin
HansGruber
Ronin
No, not hard to say it at all; the R’s controlled the house, and allowed it to leave committee to come to the floor for a vote; and the Republican majority voted for it, not against it.
Then, of course, a Republican President signed it into law.
Very much can blame the Republicans for it; if they’d have voted against it, or vetoed it, ot would be here.
Bassbob
Emissary
Except for the fact that all the democrats who complained about it had the next 8 years with Obama, some of which they Held both houses, and failed to get rid of it. Also failed to codify Row v Wade and many other things they later complained about and blamed republicans for.
You can’t blame republicans and not democrats for the Patriot Act. It’s merely another glaring example of
R=D=R=D ad nauseam. Which is how we ended up with Trump and how we ended up with democrats and republicans sandbagging him, setting him up and framing him and doing literally everything they could, legal and moral or not, to get rid of him. You don’t have to like Trump to understand he was the last and only chance to get rid of the corrupt two party pile of crap that is the US government.
HansGruber
Ronin
If it had never been passed in the first place, it never would have been renewed multiple times.
And that’s squarely on the Republicans who passed it.
Bassbob
Emissary
Even the the majority of democrats supported and voted for it they are absolved eh ?
Bassbob
Emissary
Well that didn’t take long.
www.washingtonexaminer.com
Liberty Safe allowing customers to ‘expunge’ their access codes amid calls for boycott - Washington Examiner
The gun safe manufacturer Liberty Safe has adjusted its policies in the wake of backlash it received from conservatives online after it provided the access code to one of its safes to the FBI. Liberty Safe was ordered by the federal government on Aug. 30 to give the access code to the safe of an
www.washingtonexaminer.com
Area52
Professional
Unless I missed it somewhere, how did Der Agency know his guy had a Liberty Safe in the first place?
We can understand he had used the vault to secure valuables and the sort, but any other stuff they assumed was stored within is what they sought. So it’s apparent other purchase records, transactions and location searches were conducted.
Forget this matter was complicated by a made-to-order trespassing violation. Not exactly money well spent for a trespasser(s) but that’s never been the point, its a lasting result with an ominous message is what they are establishing.
Again, this sort of extensive, high profile arrest warrant procedure is like nothing they would ever do as a matter of curtailing inner city gun violence by stalking and corralling the hundreds of lawless in any big city today.
We can understand he had used the vault to secure valuables and the sort, but any other stuff they assumed was stored within is what they sought. So it’s apparent other purchase records, transactions and location searches were conducted.
Forget this matter was complicated by a made-to-order trespassing violation. Not exactly money well spent for a trespasser(s) but that’s never been the point, its a lasting result with an ominous message is what they are establishing.
Again, this sort of extensive, high profile arrest warrant procedure is like nothing they would ever do as a matter of curtailing inner city gun violence by stalking and corralling the hundreds of lawless in any big city today.
Wasn't the warrant between law enforcement and the homeowner? What on Earth legally compelled Liberty to give out the code? They were not subpoena-ed....they had no legal pressure to reveal anything to the government without having received a subpoena. Liberty's social-media response to this issue confirms that they revealed the code based on the warrant between the home owner and the government, and not a subpoena. Their policy as stated, reveals that Liberty will give the government the code to your safe with no legal reason to do so (subpoena). Does a warrant on me and my home apply to every manufacturer of every item I own? That would be news to me.
I'm open to being corrected, if I misinterpreted anything here....
I'm open to being corrected, if I misinterpreted anything here....
Area52
Professional
The bureau likes to take the path of least resistance. It’s like taking something back to the store without a receipt, some ask for it, others don’t, worth a shot or results in another trip back.
Liberty merely obliged an informal request without much legal consultation if the were obligated in the first place. Not speculating if scary stories and hyperbole were coming from the requestor, but oh sure it happens.
It will be a civil issue for Liberty between the customer and the store privacy policy. Bigger expense is to defend himself against the criminal trespass proceeding for now.
The bureau could go anywhere and ask for voluntary info, most establishments have protocols, small business might not, they don’t as SOP just show up and rolling the dice.
The last thing Liberty wanted to do is lie about what they can and can’t divulge because it’s very likely the bureau already knew the Liberty customer code retrieval policy. They had the cards in their favor going in and asking for that combo code, and probably made notice of possible implications, hence the quick turnover “for investigative needs”.
You can have a warrant in your pocket and never have to literally serve it when or if the subject complies beforehand. It’s there for those times when the person in question says “Get a warrant!“.
Premise search warrant shall contain the items, and/or descriptions of items sought and where the may be. There’s plenty of scope afforded to what and where, plus anything else that might be illegal that’s exposed and/or in open view. Locked compartments need warrants, so a small lock box in a larger safe/vault will need a separate warrant.
A locked door to a stairwell to a locked closet or attic door, behind sits a locked safe, that contains several locked cases…lots of what-ifs, plenty of hurdles and stinks of “it’s Friday, the weekend is upon us, let’s make this easy on all of us“ comes to mind.
In the case of any warrants, still valid even if a subject claims not to be that person so long as the premise is correct. Cases of outstanding warrants were served upon some lying about who they were and that person they claimed to be was the one wanted. The search warrant covers the house and all locations (rooms, floors, outbuildings) as complete and thorough as a judge will allow if well articulated.
Liberty merely obliged an informal request without much legal consultation if the were obligated in the first place. Not speculating if scary stories and hyperbole were coming from the requestor, but oh sure it happens.
It will be a civil issue for Liberty between the customer and the store privacy policy. Bigger expense is to defend himself against the criminal trespass proceeding for now.
The bureau could go anywhere and ask for voluntary info, most establishments have protocols, small business might not, they don’t as SOP just show up and rolling the dice.
The last thing Liberty wanted to do is lie about what they can and can’t divulge because it’s very likely the bureau already knew the Liberty customer code retrieval policy. They had the cards in their favor going in and asking for that combo code, and probably made notice of possible implications, hence the quick turnover “for investigative needs”.
You can have a warrant in your pocket and never have to literally serve it when or if the subject complies beforehand. It’s there for those times when the person in question says “Get a warrant!“.
Premise search warrant shall contain the items, and/or descriptions of items sought and where the may be. There’s plenty of scope afforded to what and where, plus anything else that might be illegal that’s exposed and/or in open view. Locked compartments need warrants, so a small lock box in a larger safe/vault will need a separate warrant.
A locked door to a stairwell to a locked closet or attic door, behind sits a locked safe, that contains several locked cases…lots of what-ifs, plenty of hurdles and stinks of “it’s Friday, the weekend is upon us, let’s make this easy on all of us“ comes to mind.
In the case of any warrants, still valid even if a subject claims not to be that person so long as the premise is correct. Cases of outstanding warrants were served upon some lying about who they were and that person they claimed to be was the one wanted. The search warrant covers the house and all locations (rooms, floors, outbuildings) as complete and thorough as a judge will allow if well articulated.
KillerFord1977
SAINT
Yeah, its all over the “conservative” news sites calling for a boycottWell that didn’t take long.
Liberty Safe allowing customers to ‘expunge’ their access codes amid calls for boycott - Washington Examiner
The gun safe manufacturer Liberty Safe has adjusted its policies in the wake of backlash it received from conservatives online after it provided the access code to one of its safes to the FBI. Liberty Safe was ordered by the federal government on Aug. 30 to give the access code to the safe of an
jumpinjoe
Hellcat
I guess the same could also be said for the other side too Hans. The Dems vote (145/207) was 70% of their minority which also could have prevented it from passing. It's one argument to say that one side or the other "controlled" the house, but there's more to it than just who controlled it. It's the actual vote numbers that count on any legislation, not which party controls either house. That only means they have a majority. Regards,
Just read online that Liberty changed their policy after this debacle. They now give every safe owner the chance to have Liberty delete records of all access codes to their safes so that Liberty will not possess a master-access code, if the customer requests this. Also, Liberty says they now require a subpoena from the government before they will reveal an access code, If they possess an access code (not deleted by customer request). Too little, too late? We will see. Kind of reminds one of Bud Light? Know your customer base...